Occupy Dunedin?

[mashman]

regarding the uselessness of a utilitarian society.
you need to either engage it in its purest form, or decide at what points you want to make compromises.
Pure utilitarian society tends to not be too far away from a political regime that in recent history the world has fought to get away from in the interests of personal and political freedom.

Standing in a field, doing nothing but yell 'HEY NO FAIR, YOU GOT MORE TOYS THAN ME' isnt going to change the current discourse. ACTION, not crying creates change, and there are a number of ways I can think of in which these people could create change and lead society towards, or at least introduce it to, THEIR idea of how society should operate.

But has a utilitatian society ever been tried? not that that's what I'd like.
The purest form of any societal model will never work, we're all to different for that eh. Not sure what you mean by compromises? If you mean picking and choosing from other societal "models", errrrrrrrr, nah I can't see that being beneficial. I'd rather we looked at the "problem" from a getting rid of money/value system point of view and then went from there. Societies have to constantly "evolve", imho, to cater for the living standards available to us, taking into account the current and near future states of technology,the environment etc... and making sensible decisions in regards to the impacts on the essentials of life... after that innovation will lead the way to fulfil our needs. Currently that's hampered by budget constraint for the majority, something I do not agree with. Especially when you consider that Einstein and probably many other geniuses of their time were "hobbyists". I can't start to imagine what we're missing in regards to innovation/creativity because the genius in question has to work on the bin lorry because his social skills aren't up to making it in the boys club. Extreme example maybe, but I doubt it's that far from the mark.

Standing in a field and yelling, 'IT'S NOT FAIR THAT I HAVE TO PAY TAXES TO FEED PEOPLE WHO DON'T WORK' isn't going to change it either . Then there's action, hmmmm let's see now, standing in a field asking for change or storming the castle and forcing change, potentially causing civil war and risking your liberty (woulda said freedom, but we aren't free) for something that would no doubt be called a terrorist act... what a choice. Hardly surprising we're in fields.

What are the number of ways you can think of?

[scumdog]

But has a utilitatian society ever been tried? not that that's what I'd like.
The purest form of any societal model will never work, we're all to different for that eh.

Damn tootin' right.

Too many lazy bastards for it to work.

[mashman]

Too many lazy bastards for it to work.

I disagree, but will spare ya'll the finer details . If done properly, there should be more room for more lazy bastards as we have more than enough people to do everything we need for society to keep on spinning...

[tigertim20]

What are the number of ways you can think of?

For one, get involved in the discourse you seek to change. You cannot create change from the outside. get involved in business, and use leading by example to show that there is a better way that makes more people happy (I say more 'cos youll never please everyone).
Yes, doing this would take a long time to have an affect, but look at any major societal normality that has had its discourse changed (womens rights, apartheid, black slavery etc) - they have all taken TIME to change, - it wasnt changed by people standing in a field complaining, thinking that their little protest was going to change things overnight. In those examples, things were changed because people got involved at all levels and tackled the issue head on. At present, the protesters have a particular image, which to many people is not a particularly positive one. If they change their approach, theyll change their image, which will increase their perceived validity, theyll gain supprt, and MAYBE, they can facilitate change.

I disagree, but will spare ya'll the finer details . If done properly, there should be more room for more lazy bastards as we have more than enough people to do everything we need for society to keep on spinning...

I think you have a tad too much faith in human nature!

[mashman]

For one, get involved in the discourse you seek to change. You cannot create change from the outside. get involved in business, and use leading by example to show that there is a better way that makes more people happy (I say more 'cos youll never please everyone).
Yes, doing this would take a long time to have an affect, but look at any major societal normality that has had its discourse changed (womens rights, apartheid, black slavery etc) - they have all taken TIME to change, - it wasnt changed by people standing in a field complaining, thinking that their little protest was going to change things overnight. In those examples, things were changed because people got involved at all levels and tackled the issue head on. At present, the protesters have a particular image, which to many people is not a particularly positive one. If they change their approach, theyll change their image, which will increase their perceived validity, theyll gain supprt, and MAYBE, they can facilitate change.

I shall call bullshit on your suggestion. Getting involved to make a difference . Several parties have tried over decades to break the status quo Red or Blue, yet get absolutely nowhere. Even our glorious leader won't lead the opposition (IF the Nats lose the election) because he believes it to be a fruitless pursuit. So yeah, bullshit. It takes next to no time at all to change anything. What changes from 1 day to the next in regards to the likes of womens rights, apartheid, black slavery etc... that "it" all of a sudden becomes acceptable? The minds of those in power. Not trying to sound condescending or throw your suggestion in your face, but nothing has changed since forever, other than a smattering of human rights gained and many freedoms taken. Fuck that shit, I'd rather storm the castle and bypass/replace the narrow minded ineffectual bureaucratic bullshit that the politicians spin, hide behind and then defend as the only way forwards. They're fuckin with peoples lives.

The Protesters Image, , that has to be the single most pathetic recurring statement I ever hear... It's up there with, oh look, they're using the products that they're railing against, oh the hypocrisy of it all... oh they just don't look right, we obviously can't trust what they stand for, they must be dole bludgers, they should get jobs and a message... whereas if they had a nice smile and wore suits I could probably take them seriously . FARKIN pathetic! Sounds like Sheeples to me.

Nah, Standing in the field still sounds like the best option, all they need is for the govt to engage them in discussion, bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaa, tui? It's not rocket science and when it comes to changing taxation laws, they do these things under urgency all the time, just not for the right reasons. Nail the tax dodgers or GTFO and stop encouraging rorting of the country's finances! Actually, storming the castle sounds bettererr and bettererer as an option all the time.

I think you have a tad too much faith in human nature!

Someone has to... you may wanna try it someday.

[mashman]

If YOU were a head honcho of a billion dollar corporation earning millions through making smart, informed business and political decisions that continued to increase both your personal wealth, as well as the value of your company/corporation, would you just sit back and let some hippy arseholes demand you stop, reduce your wealth and walk away? fuck no you wouldnt.

So this sort of thing is ok then? after all, it's only a few Kiwi lives that could be saved/lost

[98tls]

nice and wet in a tent tonight

Wouldnt matter what night they did it,rains 365 days a year down in that shithole doesnt it?if its not raining its misty and gloomy enough to be considered rain.

[JimO]

Wouldnt matter what night they did it,rains 365 days a year down in that shithole doesnt it?if its not raining its misty and gloomy enough to be considered rain.

na mate thats just a rumor we spread to keep all the north islanders away, good day here today the snow has almost melted

[98tls]

na mate thats just a rumor we spread to keep all the north islanders away, good day here today the snow has almost melted

Good point,silly me.

[FJRider]

na mate thats just a rumor we spread to keep all the north islanders away, good day here today the snow has almost melted

And the last three ice-bergs were towed out of the harbour ...

[scumdog]

And the last three ice-bergs were towed out of the harbour ...

And



i've hung up my snow-shoes for the rest of the year...

[DrunkenMistake]

And



i've hung up my snow-shoes for the rest of the year...

Now now,
your further south than we are,
You can hardly be apart of this haha, 98tls is just a little upset someone took his Banjo while walking the street of Oamaru :P

[Berries]

98tls is just a little upset someone took his Banjo while walking the street of Oamaru :P

It's safe to do that now then?

Next you know they will have electric as well.

[Virago]

[RDJ]

The Dunedin police are choosing selective enforcement of the law... how else to interpret this? They label it an occupation themselves; they acknowledge it is interfering with freedom of movement for the taxpaying public; but...

"The stand-off between Dunedin City Council and anti-capitalism protestors occupying the Octagon has intensified. Dunedin police have ruled out enforcing trespass notices to the group issued at the end of October...."

Dear Inspector Sparrow @ Dunedin; are you occupying the job we pay you for, or not?