MotoGP 2012

[slowpoke]

Cleve and McWild, open minded comments.

Rossi's first preference would be to win on the Duc but if they can't make progress...

Honda have said they will not have two Spanish riders which, either way you look at it, can only mean Pedrosa must be on borrowed time.

"Face" is very important to Asian people, if Honda consider that hiring Rossi would lose them face it won't happen.

So we all wait to see what Lorenzo will do, and while he waits his price just goes up and up.

In the meantime I find myself in the unusual postion of considering becoming a Lorenzo supporter. This retrospective appeal is due simply to the fact that if Stoner wins the title this year, all and sundry will claim that whoever wins next year only did so because Stoner wasn't there.

But which is the greater loss of face for Honda? Being beaten by Yamaha or giving themselves a chance with Rossi? Pedrosa is up there with Lorenzo and will win some races....but I don't think it'll be quite enough barring some misfortune for J-Lo. No-one else will come within an M1's roar of those two over the length of a season so Honda's options are pretty limited if they want to win the title. They either throw movie star money at J-Lo or come to an arrangement with Rossi. He's the only other bloke on the grid who's capable of consistently winning if he's got the right tools.

With the performance of the Rossi/Ducati combo there is very little if any loss of face for Honda if they could get him back on the box: there would be absolutely no doubt that Honda made the difference.

[Oscar]

But which is the greater loss of face for Honda? Being beaten by Yamaha or giving themselves a chance with Rossi?

Honda have shown several times in their history that they'd rather lose races than lose face. The fabulous oval piston NR500 is a classic example.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Honda have shown several times in their history that they'd rather lose races than lose face. The fabulous oval piston NR500 is a classic example.

lol. Nice example!

[denill]

Someone will tell me if I'm wrong, lol - but I have the impression that the manufacturers don't pay the riders mega dollars and the big dosh comes from the rider's sponsors.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Someone will tell me if I'm wrong, lol - but I have the impression that the manufacturers don't pay the riders mega dollars and the big dosh comes from the rider's sponsors.

No. The top boys get shitloads from the manufacturers.

[jasonu]

Honda have shown several times in their history that they'd rather lose races than lose face. The fabulous oval piston NR500 is a classic example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWK6U...eature=related

[merv]

Funny thing is if they built a 500GP bike these days they'd probably get all the power they would need without oval pistons, 8 valve heads and double con-rods. The current MotoGP bikes rev to 16,000rpm so its quite likely that a 500 V4 could rev to 20,000 like the NR did as design has come a long way with more titanium, tiny flat pistons etc.

Crasher no doubt will tell me if development had kept going on the 2 strokes they would still be ahead so no point talking of what might have been with a 500GP 4 stroke.

[Cleve]

But which is the greater loss of face for Honda? Being beaten by Yamaha or giving themselves a chance with Rossi? Pedrosa is up there with Lorenzo and will win some races....but I don't think it'll be quite enough barring some misfortune for J-Lo. No-one else will come within an M1's roar of those two over the length of a season so Honda's options are pretty limited if they want to win the title. They either throw movie star money at J-Lo or come to an arrangement with Rossi. He's the only other bloke on the grid who's capable of consistently winning if he's got the right tools.

With the performance of the Rossi/Ducati combo there is very little if any loss of face for Honda if they could get him back on the box: there would be absolutely no doubt that Honda made the difference.

Greetings from Japan where I spend a lot of time and have some understanding of Japanese mentality. Plus I married one as well. Slowpoke mate you are spot on here.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Crasher no doubt will tell me if development had kept going on the 2 strokes they would still be ahead so no point talking of what might have been with a 500GP 4 stroke.

Funny thing is Merv...you're wrong. Only so much you can do with a 500cc two stroke, and they'd pretty much got there! Maybe direct injection would help...but it's a revs thing.

[merv]

Yeah direct injection and some form of pressurised air intake too - supercharger or turbocharger with intercooler (as heat was the killer of 2 stroke power), but then a 4 stroke turbo would still probably beat it if we're allowing turbos. Remember the turbo Honda F1 cars (Lotus and Williams) were only 1500cc but could put out 1,000hp on full boost. At that rate a turbo 500 could be far more powerful than the current 1,000cc MotoGP bikes.

How about a two stroke with valves in the head so that the burnt charge is flushed by opening exhaust and an intake valve and squirting in pressurised charge. The killer of rpm with the two stroke is the relatively long stroke including the port timing. Do away with the ports and there you go, shorten the stroke and up the revs. Now that would be a prototype.

[denill]

Yeah direct injection and some form of pressurised air intake too - supercharger or turbocharger with intercooler (as heat was the killer of 2 stroke power), but then a 4 stroke turbo would still probably beat it if we're allowing turbos. Remember the turbo Honda F1 cars (Lotus and Williams) were only 1500cc but could put out 1,000hp on full boost. At that rate a turbo 500 could be far more powerful than the current 1,000cc MotoGP bikes.

How about a two stroke with valves in the head so that the burnt charge is flushed by opening exhaust and an intake valve and squirting in pressurised charge. The killer of rpm with the two stroke is the relatively long stroke including the port timing. Do away with the ports and there you go, shorten the stroke and up the revs. Now that would be a prototype.

Yes Merv. There are a lot of paths that two stroke development briefly travelled. Rotary valves being one of them. Power valves have made off-road smokers so much more user friendly and offer greater degrees of tune, so much so that they are now again the favourite option for many.

However the road/roadrace two stroke development has come to a screaming halt. A return to two stroke powered MotoGP bikes is most unlikely but I would venture that two strokes would be less costly to develop than the four stroke mode of power..

[DidJit]

The other silly season...

[Oscar]

Yes Merv. There are a lot of paths that two stroke development briefly travelled. Rotary valves being one of them. Power valves have made off-road smokers so much more user friendly and offer greater degrees of tune, so much so that they are now again the favourite option for many.

However the road/roadrace two stroke development has come to a screaming halt. A return to two stroke powered MotoGP bikes is most unlikely but I would venture that two strokes would be less costly to develop than the four stroke mode of power..

Direct injection two strokes were looked at as options for both Moto2 and Moto3.
I think lack of relevance killed them - no one is making or selling them in any numbers yet.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Direct injection two strokes were looked at as options for both Moto2 and Moto3.
I think lack of relevance killed them - no one is making or selling them in any numbers yet.

Hopefully someone will start selling a few and then they may reconsider it. Surely cheaper to race than the current bikes. Yes I've heard the stories about the RS250 Aprilia's costing more. That to me was surely Aprilia taking the proverbial because they could.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

In the meantime I find myself in the unusual postion of considering becoming a Lorenzo supporter. This retrospective appeal is due simply to the fact that if Stoner wins the title this year, all and sundry will claim that whoever wins next year only did so because Stoner wasn't there.

This is exactly why I don't want Stoner to win this year.

Well one of the many reasons anyway.