MotoGP 2012

[Mental Trousers]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120622uh.htm

Written by someone who won't even put a pseudonym to it.

Trouble is I'm yet to hear a viable alternative from MSMA, riders or commentators.

Exactly

The problem isn't with CRT, the problem is that there are 2 different spec bikes on the grid ( 3 if you split it into Factory, Satellite and CRT). Honda's rumored "production racer" is no different: as long as it's a lower spec than the factory bikes it's not gonna help the situation.

There needs to be one spec across the board. The tricky part is defining the spec to give a decent number of bikes on the grid and a decent level of bike performance/technology.

With one spec money dominates.

At the moment what we're seeing is the have's vs have not's. The factories have years of investing at the top level of the sport and simply have the best of everything (even Ducati have their pig in front of the CRT bikes due to their prior investment and knowledge it's only in the last 2 percent of performance they're failing miserably). The CRT teams have had about 12 months to try and cobble together something that has to go up against bikes that have 10+ years of experience and millions of dollars invested in them.

• limited budgets vs millions already invested
• no prior experience vs many years
• a year to put a team together vs well sorted, stable, long term teams
• hopefuls vs worlds best riders

The CRT teams were always going to be coming from a long way behind

[Mental Trousers]

[paddock rumour]Apparently the Honda will be the business (as opposed to a street bike version of the racer) and BMW and Suzuki are looking at offering replica race bikes for sale, and the thinking is that if Honda do it, Yamaha will follow along.[/paddock rumour]

If Suzuki were onto it they'd start offering their current prototype that's been turning up in spy photos as a CRT production racer then work with the teams to get their feedback and improve it. Much cheaper way to go about it and you get much more feedback and testing.

[Crasherfromwayback]

[
The CRT teams were always going to be coming from a long way behind

A lot of people here I think truely believed that the CRT bikes would be dicing with the factory bikes before too long.

While I agree something had to happen...I think they've gone down the wrong path. Maybe with the advent of production race bikes that closely mimmick the full on prototypes things will come right. Fingers crossed.

[Oscar]

A lot of people here I think truely believed that the CRT bikes would be dicing with the factory bikes before too long.

While I agree something had to happen...I think they've gone down the wrong path. Maybe with the advent of production race bikes that closely mimmick the full on prototypes things will come right. Fingers crossed.

Yeah, that comment from Edwards about his bike being too rigid seems to indicate that maybe the MotoGP tyres might be the problem. Or perhaps, as you say, starting with a production MotGP bike will be easier than starting with SBK machinery.

[DidJit]

... Maybe with the advent of production race bikes that closely mimick the full on prototypes things will come right. Fingers crossed.

Maybe Dorna had to push the ‘CRT’ concept to get the factories to finally cut the price of a satellite bring out production racers again...

[Oscar]

Maybe Dorna had to push the ‘CRT’ concept to get the factories to finally cut the price of a satellite bring out production racers again...

I'm pretty sure that was the idea all along...

[tigertim20]

A lot of people here I think truely believed that the CRT bikes would be dicing with the factory bikes before too long.

While I agree something had to happen...I think they've gone down the wrong path. Maybe with the advent of production race bikes that closely mimmick the full on prototypes things will come right. Fingers crossed.

define 'before too long'. as mentioned, they are 10 years behind in development, hundreds of millions behind in R and D money spent, and thats just the actual bikes, the riders are (with the odd exception) many years behind in experience in this level/set of rules etc the teams are tens of years behind in terms of building team cohesion and strategy etc etc.

Its not like they were EVER going to win a race in season 1 of CRT - I think they will get to the point where they are competitive, but it will take a couple years - in the meantime, while they catch up, Id rather see a large grid than (if you ignore the slightly different spec between factory and sattelite) basically 3 bikes on the grid (Honda Yamaha, Ducati.)

[Tony.OK]

define 'before too long'. as mentioned, they are 10 years behind in development, hundreds of millions behind in R and D money spent, and thats just the actual bikes, the riders are (with the odd exception) many years behind in experience in this level/set of rules etc the teams are tens of years behind in terms of building team cohesion and strategy etc etc.

Its not like they were EVER going to win a race in season 1 of CRT - I think they will get to the point where they are competitive, but it will take a couple years - in the meantime, while they catch up, Id rather see a large grid than (if you ignore the slightly different spec between factory and sattelite) basically 3 bikes on the grid (Honda Yamaha, Ducati.)

40ish HP behind and they're meant to be competitive? Never happen on a dry track!
I think they are more of a "hello.....this is where MotoGP is heading!" stop gap from the higher ups.

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.

Shit why not just merge WSBK if they want big grids haha.

[Crasherfromwayback]

, Id rather see a large grid than (if you ignore the slightly different spec between factory and sattelite) basically 3 bikes on the grid (Honda Yamaha, Ducati.)

Can you honestly say CRT's have made your viewing of Moto GP more enjoyable this year than last? I sure as fuck can't.

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.

.

Me neither. They're not doing what they hoped I reckon.

[tigertim20]

40ish HP behind and they're meant to be competitive? Never happen on a dry track!
I think they are more of a "hello.....this is where MotoGP is heading!" stop gap from the higher ups.

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.

Shit why not just merge WSBK if they want big grids haha.

it takes time. with a bit of time, Im sure the HP gap will begin to be bridged - like I said look at the head start the factory honda and yamaha and Ducati have - it will take time.

people become impatient, and short sighted. Yes its annoying to be seeing heaps of slower racing - but im sure there are plenty out there who are interested in the development of CRT and do want to see how theyre going.
No, it isnt making it a whole lot more enjoyable, but you need to think long term - are you saying you cant see them being competitive when a control ecu is brought in?

Can you honestly say CRT's have made your viewing of Moto GP more enjoyable this year than last? I sure as fuck can't.



Me neither. They're not doing what they hoped I reckon.

not yet they havent, but I think in time it may still happen. I mean fuck, theres only been what, 5 races? you expect them to catch up from a deficit of tens of years of experience and R and D, and ten of millions of dollars behind in 5 or 6 races? of course not.

[merv]

CRT are using production street bike engines aren't they a bit like WSBK, maybe hotrodded a bit more, but none of them have specialist built MotoGP engines - who would expect them to get close no matter how many years of development? Now production racers by Honda and co, that sounds like a better idea.

[Tony.OK]

CRT are using production street bike engines aren't they a bit like WSBK, maybe hotrodded a bit more, but none of them have specialist built MotoGP engines - who would expect them to get close no matter how many years of development? Now production racers by Honda and co, that sounds like a better idea.

Yup, and if they ever DID get the stock engines HP close to the GP bikes I'd bet that the cost to do so would negate the whole "low cost" CRT bikes existence anyway.

[pritch]

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.

I don't know about a contract, but the TV producers have definitely been told to give the back markers more coverage.
As always, it's about money. Sponsorship is increasingly hard to come by and sponsors want to be seen so...

I have reservations about rider safety when taking races to new places like Russia, India, Indonesia, or God knows where else, but with southern Europe going down the gurgler the grass must be looking greener in all sorts of strange places.

So, as well as CRT there may be other things not meeting with our unanimous approval, but times are tough and it's becoming about survival.

I can't remember who it was I was listening to yesterday, either the LCR or the Grisini chief, but he was looking on the bright side. He pointed out that the gap between first and last was smaller in Moto GP than in either WSBK or F1. My first thought was, how many on the grid of each? It was an interesting comment though.

[Oscar]

CRT are using production street bike engines aren't they a bit like WSBK, maybe hotrodded a bit more, but none of them have specialist built MotoGP engines - who would expect them to get close no matter how many years of development? Now production racers by Honda and co, that sounds like a better idea.

CRT don't have to be production based.
The rules only say that they are limited to 4 cylinders and an 81mm bore size.

However it is hard to make a prototype engine and keep it under E20,000.

[Oscar]

Can you honestly say CRT's have made your viewing of Moto GP more enjoyable this year than last? I sure as fuck can't.



Me neither. They're not doing what they hoped I reckon.

I bet there were a whole lotta guys in the 80's and 90's on production 500s that you didn't see on TV or give a shit about either.
I tried to look up the name of a Dutch 500 rider that we shared a pit with at Phillip Island in 1990 - Kees Doorakkers or summat.
He had an old proddy Honda and his claim to fame was knocking off Gardner in practice.
I can't find squat about him, but I did find (to my surprise) that there were only 12 finishers in that race - a race that was picked as one of the best in 50 years by Cycle World.