MotoGP 2012

[merv]

I bet there were a whole lotta guys in the 80's and 90's on production 500s that you didn't see on TV or give a shit about either.
I tried to look up the name of a Dutch 500 rider that we shared a pit with at Phillip Island in 1990 - Kees Doorakkers or summat.
He had an old proddy Honda and his claim to fame was knocking off Gardner in practice.
I can't find squat about him, but I did find (to my surprise) that there were only 12 finishers in that race - a race that was picked as one of the best in 50 years by Cycle World.

There is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cees_Doorakkers and he was the 12th finisher that day in 1990.

and his zero record http://www.motogp.com/en/riders/Cees+Doorakkers

and all these images http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Cee...w=1024&bih=485

just to show you a few

[merv]

Interesting, while looking for Oscar's boy Cees Doorakkers I found this video from the 1988 Spa GP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEsGk...layer_embedded

It was in the rain, Gardner wins, but see the speed the leaders lap the field at. Those lapped were certainly like the CRT riders of the day.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I bet there were a whole lotta guys in the 80's and 90's on production 500s that you didn't see on TV or give a shit about either.

, but I did find (to my surprise) that there were only 12 finishers in that race - a race that was picked as one of the best in 50 years by Cycle World.

That's always been my point Oscar. I didn't give a sit about them, just like I don't the CRT bikes. Except at least when the privateer 500's got wasted and finished 13th the didn't share victory lane with the winners!

And again...exactly. One of the best races ever? Wityh only 12 finishers? Awesome. Some of the best Moto GP races I've seen were likewise. Exactly my point again. We don't need the CRT bikes to make up the numbers to have great races.

[slowpoke]

I don't wanna see footage of bikes at the back of the pack when the action is happening up front, they seem to do it right at the wrong time too, almost like they are contracted to show a minimum of CRT footage.

Me neither. They're not doing what they hoped I reckon.

As much as TV is the big ticket item you also have to consider filling a race track and making the whole trackside experience worthwhile too (spectators/sponsors/merchandise etc). Imagine a grid of 10-12 protypes on a decent length track: it'd be cool as fuck for about 20 sec's out of 90sec/lap, but what do you do the rest of the time?

I just read an interview in Performance Bikes (Pommy) mag with Paul Bird (running James Ellison). They are treating this year very much as just a toe in the water, well aware that the gap is too huge to bridge. The costs are huge in starting up ( it was either 40000 pounds or dollars for 3 sets of front brake rotors) so they are basically accumulating bikes, parts and experience ready to push on next year when they own the bikes. He was very pragmatic in what he was going to accomplish with $2m in comparison to a factory spending $40m.

CRT are using production street bike engines aren't they a bit like WSBK, maybe hotrodded a bit more, but none of them have specialist built MotoGP engines - who would expect them to get close no matter how many years of development?

Thats what I intitially thought, but I drastically underestimated the lengths that WSB go to:
"Max Biaggi used 28 engines during the 2011 WSBK season, more than two per race weekend. Randy de Puniet has 12 engines to last for 18 race weekends, meaning his engines need to last about three times as long as Biaggi's WSBK-spec RSV4 engines."
(info from www.motomatters.com)
Hence the CRT bikes are actually making less than the WSB bikes.

[slowpoke]

And again...exactly. One of the best races ever? Wityh only 12 finishers? Awesome. Some of the best Moto GP races I've seen were likewise. Exactly my point again. We don't need the CRT bikes to make up the numbers to have great races.

When was the last time you saw a last lap pass for the win in a dry MotoGP race? How often have we seen more than 2 bikes battling for the win (I'm talking multiple passes not just following closely) as there was in that race? It just isn't happening.

Edit: back in the day the rider was a much bigger performance component and could make up for deficiencies in the machine. Times have changed and Mr Honda has succeeded with his dream of making machine performance more dominant thanks to all the electronic aids. Until the human element is given more importance we are well and truly screwed. Lose the farkin' electronics!

[eelracing]

That's always been my point Oscar. I didn't give a sit about them, just like I don't the CRT bikes. Except at least when the privateer 500's got wasted and finished 13th the didn't share victory lane with the winners!

And again...exactly. One of the best races ever? Wityh only 12 finishers? Awesome. Some of the best Moto GP races I've seen were likewise. Exactly my point again. We don't need the CRT bikes to make up the numbers to have great races.

Nail on head Crasher...this is one big reason why Stoner is retiring.It is no longer about racing and more about being seen.When Dorna started shoving moto2 & 3 teams out of the paddock to make room to entertain corporate bankers in sponsor restaurants and marqueez the sport is on the slippery slope to Formula 1 style cock in hand excess.

You do not need full grids,what you do need is simplified rules and a fair playing field open to anyone with the passion to give it a go...having to pay to get a bike on the grid of a championship was just the beginning of a self centered greed ethos that has pervaded this sport ever since Dorna took over the reigns.

Get these cunts out of there...give the FIM back the control...stop the factories setting the current regulations(otherwise fuck-off) and get back to what the original 500cc championship was about.

If it does'nt sell TV packages then I and millions of other GP fans would'nt lose any bloody sleep over it.

[codgyoleracer]

As long as you look at this issue from the promotors / series owners side - the decisions make sense. They are in it to make money.

Us old school style "motorcyclists" are probably their worst nightmare..................

IMO, The BSB series is probably "spectator wise" one of the best series on the planet to actually watch, The ASBK is also bloody close racing with multiple challengers for the championship and multiple winners across the series.

We all know that in GP the best bike ends up with the best rider and usually with the best funded and factory backed team, - thats all good and well in a field of 30-40 bikes , where there is so much action going on and an increased level of 'unknown variables" that naturally comes into effect with larger race fields. But when there are such few machines at a factory level - well the outcome is pretty obvious.

So how do you give the underdog a chance & in doing that hopefully see the fields increase in size ?

Dump the electronics
Dump qualifying tyres
Run an open tyre rule (one that allows all teams access to all brands and the various compounds) I:E no 'special tyres for selected teams"
Remove fuel tank capacity limits
Run two races per weekend
Run a 25.23.20.18.......... points table.


2 cents
GW

[Crasherfromwayback]

When was the last time you saw a last lap pass for the win in a dry MotoGP race? How often have we seen more than 2 bikes battling for the win (I'm talking multiple passes not just following closely) as there was in that race? It just isn't happening.

!

I can think of quite a few races where awesome passes have been done on the last lap. Not always for first, but awesome none the less. German GP couple of years ago, Lorenzo on Stoner. Rossi on Lorenzo in Spain. Rossi and Stoners dice at Laguna, Stoners move on everyone else at Laguna last year. Rossi and Lorenzo in Japan in 2010 etc etc etc. There's been some fucking awesome racing even in the so called 'boring' 800cc era, it's just that people always seem to have the ir rose tinted specs on regarding racing of old. I seem to recall Doohan fucking off into the distance for years on end. Even this season Lorenzo and Stoner have had a few good races. I think it'll get better yet too. But I don't believe we need the 8 hangers on to improve it.

[pritch]

But I don't believe we need the 8 hangers on to improve it.

When I first got interested in GPs there were just two MV factory bikes in the premier class, the rest were privateers who were all fighting over third at best.

CRT may not look too flash at the moment and one hopes that things look up, but the spectacle has improved. In recent years there have been times when everyone who finished got a championship point. It was getting a bit desperate there for a while once there was an injury or two.

The Honda production racer might change things, as might equivalent bikes from other manufacturers.

We can only hope.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The Honda production racer might change things, as might equivalent bikes from other manufacturers.

We can only hope.

I'm with you on that!

[slowpoke]

As long as you look at this issue from the promotors / series owners side - the decisions make sense. They are in it to make money.

Us old school style "motorcyclists" are probably their worst nightmare..................

IMO, The BSB series is probably "spectator wise" one of the best series on the planet to actually watch, The ASBK is also bloody close racing with multiple challengers for the championship and multiple winners across the series.

We all know that in GP the best bike ends up with the best rider and usually with the best funded and factory backed team, - thats all good and well in a field of 30-40 bikes , where there is so much action going on and an increased level of 'unknown variables" that naturally comes into effect with larger race fields. But when there are such few machines at a factory level - well the outcome is pretty obvious.

So how do you give the underdog a chance & in doing that hopefully see the fields increase in size ?

Dump the electronics
Dump qualifying tyres
Run an open tyre rule (one that allows all teams access to all brands and the various compounds) I:E no 'special tyres for selected teams"
Remove fuel tank capacity limits
Run two races per weekend
Run a 25.23.20.18.......... points table.


2 cents
GW

GW for Dorna el Presidente!

I can think of quite a few races where awesome passes have been done on the last lap. Not always for first, but awesome none the less. German GP couple of years ago, Lorenzo on Stoner. Rossi on Lorenzo in Spain. Rossi and Stoners dice at Laguna, Stoners move on everyone else at Laguna last year. Rossi and Lorenzo in Japan in 2010 etc etc etc. There's been some fucking awesome racing even in the so called 'boring' 800cc era, it's just that people always seem to have the ir rose tinted specs on regarding racing of old. I seem to recall Doohan fucking off into the distance for years on end. Even this season Lorenzo and Stoner have had a few good races. I think it'll get better yet too. But I don't believe we need the 8 hangers on to improve it.

Yeah, totally agree there have been some great moves and some good racing....but the trend seems to be towards less of it, especially with regard to multiple bikes battling for the lead late in a race.

As for the 8 hangers on, I don't see a lot of difference to the privateers of old, we just don't have the depth of field to blur the gap....and electronics just magnify any difference where a rider used to able to make up for machine limitations if they were good enough.

I realise it's all a bit huckery at the moment but the current arrangement is just a transitional period, it's just dragging (successfully) more players into the game. We're yet to see anything like the end result so I'm reserving judgement until things "normalise". We're a wee way off that point.

[DidJit]

Something for the purists to get their teeth into...

[pritch]

I sometimes wish I had a babelfish.

Virtually every possible variation on Rossi's next move has already been predicted, but the other day I came across a Spanish article that stated that next year's Repsol team was going to be Rossi and Marquez. Unfortunately I couldn't decipher the processs by which the journo had arrived at that conclusion.

The Spanish press can be a bit creative but they got Stoner's retirement right.

[slowpoke]

Something for the purists to get their teeth into...

Thanks, interesting article and the comments are almost as interesting. One of the best was pointing out that for all the talking about the electronics flowing onto street bikes Honda don't even run TC on their flagship sportsbike. Yet they run ABS which is banned in MotoGP. Obvious, but I'd never twigged to it. A spec ECU is so the way to go.

[eelracing]

Thanks, interesting article and the comments are almost as interesting. One of the best was pointing out that for all the talking about the electronics flowing onto street bikes Honda don't even run TC on their flagship sportsbike. Yet they run ABS which is banned in MotoGP. Obvious, but I'd never twigged to it. A spec ECU is so the way to go.

The majority of those comments make more sense than Emmett, he only cares about his comfy hotel room.

It's already a done deal...you are just being softsoaped into thinking there's no alternative.