What class will this fit into?

[mossy1200]

Pretty obvious that it isn't legal of you bother reading the rule book. But then most people don't. Legal protection fair trading / consumer guarantees act etc is even less understood by the majority, my guess is that you'd end up in small claims before you had any chance of a refund,and how many people bother with that.

True some would some wouldnt but the second you do let one race you take away the option of smalls claims results as he can say it has been running already on x date at x location which will justify him doing no wrong.At least with a copy of the add and a letter from club stating which rules make this bike not able to run F4 and copy of the rules refund would be a sure thing.

I dont race buckets had a go and alot of fun but you need to make a stand either way about it to give people who buy one, uniformed of rules a out clause.remember its your sports future members your looking after as a existing racer wont buy one.

I am curious to see if anyone would pay 2k for a bike plus gear then just turn up to race.I would have thought a random turn up would have adapted a comuter from his garage rather than spend 2k.Would it be fair to say most new members turn up with bungs,lock wire etc because they have done resurch first or know someone whoes racing or have been to club open day etc.

[Henk]

Most complete newbies turn up and have a look and bludge a ride on a regulars bike at the end of the day to see what it's all about or get sucked in by mates.
I bought a cheap shitter to have a go after being loaned bikes on a couple of occasions over a period of years. Now I have more buckets than I like to think about, some are medium / long term loaners to get others addicted though.
The real shitter is when you lend someone a bike and they promptly go out and beat you, ungrateful talented bastards.

[Dutchee]

I've had an email from the guy, I kinda feel sorry for him, as he has asked ""an organiser" and even though its an over size engine he has been told that its probably OK to race with F4 . It makes it bloody hard for F4 to be taken seriously when this sort of advice is bandied about.
I also suggested that he should try and arrange a seperate class for mini motards to be raced, on the same tracks and at the same meets but have the motards run in there own seperate class. Maybe his "helpful" organiser could try and get on the case with this too.
Run them as a seperate class but make it quite clear its not a bucket/F4 bike.
Meanwhile who ever this organiser is, he needs to be taken out back and smacked in the head with a 4x2

The organiser probably thought it was some person who had a pit bike in his shed and wanting to have a go, not the fact that it was someone importing however many of them.

[gav]

Maybe, who knows, but I think he has had the bike checked out, and has been told that it would be OK to race. That doesnt make it a bucket racer or legal unfortunately, but also doesnt help anyone. And yeah Mossy, 2K is pretty cheap if it was competitive. You seen the CBR150's on there kitted out as race bikes? $3500 + for those, oh, and completely legal too
The seller asked me if I was buying a bucket racer, told him I already had a LEGAL race bike.
Had to laugh when he mentioned the engine was based on a KLX110, ummm, that motor has been around since the 1970's, Honda ST/CT 90.
I think trying to get a mini motard class going would be the best bet for him.

[koba]

True some would some wouldnt but the second you do let one race you take away the option of smalls claims results as he can say it has been running already on x date at x location which will justify him doing no wrong.At least with a copy of the add and a letter from club stating which rules make this bike not able to run F4 and copy of the rules refund would be a sure thing.

I dont race buckets had a go and alot of fun but you need to make a stand either way about it to give people who buy one, uniformed of rules a out clause.remember its your sports future members your looking after as a existing racer wont buy one.

I am curious to see if anyone would pay 2k for a bike plus gear then just turn up to race.I would have thought a random turn up would have adapted a comuter from his garage rather than spend 2k.Would it be fair to say most new members turn up with bungs,lock wire etc because they have done resurch first or know someone whoes racing or have been to club open day etc.

I'm not so sure it wouldn't result in a small claims win.

Either way no-one wins if a buyer is aggrieved. It's shithouse for everyone, including THE SELLER!!!

Maybe not 2K but more than a the few hundie people seem to think all buckets cost.
Some learn more than others before they buy too, a lot of current racers will have never read the rules.

[koba]

Also sadly it is quite OK by itself as a product without trying to hock it off as a bucket...

I'd quite like something like that If I was on the lookout for more toys.

[jasonu]

Most complete newbies turn up and have a look and bludge a ride on a regulars bike at the end of the day to see what it's all about or get sucked in by mates.
I bought a cheap shitter to have a go after being loaned bikes on a couple of occasions over a period of years. Now I have more buckets than I like to think about, some are medium / long term loaners to get others addicted though.
The real shitter is when you lend someone a bike and they promptly go out and beat you, ungrateful talented bastards.

And that is how it has (mostly) always worked.

Machines that don't fit the rules should NEVER be allowed to compete in an actual race on an official race day points or not, 'off the back of the grid' or from anywhere else. The race results and points awarded will be affected which could change the outcome of a season championship series. I would not even be comfortable with them being allowed to ride on practice days either.
If these machines are allowed in then that could open the door to other marginal machines in the future.
F4 is a formula class with rules so lets keep to them.

[CHOPPA]

Can it be sleeved down to race in Buckets?

[Moooools]

All right muppets. Easy solution:

Allow four stroke competition engines.
Increase capcity limit for four strokes to 160cc.

Promlem solved.

[CHOPPA]

At the end of the day Formula 4 is a 'RACE' class that 'RACES' bikes that are 'NON RACE BIKES' go to any small claims court with rules like that and you wont get anywhere.

I have already proved there is a loop hole for this bike to be eligible to race legally

[Drew]

Can it be sleeved down to race in Buckets?

No, but you can get a normal 125 pit bike motor and chuck the internals from the comp motor in it. Mount it back in the nice frame and you have a legal bike. Might cost an extra $100 though.

[jasonu]

I have already proved there is a loop hole for this bike to be eligible to race legally

What was that?

[Drew]

What was that?

Dunno, but the scenario I proposed where the bits are put from that motor into a normal pit bike casings works.

All the parts of that motor are available for sale individually, and are not listed as competition parts. Perhaps that is the loop hole Sloan speaks of. If I can build my own motor to the exact specs, using non competition parts, surely this motor is legal despite being marketed as competition.

It aint just the motor being marketed competition you might say, the rest of the bike can be purchased in bits not so labelled also.

[Kickaha]

I have already proved there is a loop hole for this bike to be eligible to race legally

In what class? because it wouldn't be Buckets
The fact that it starts at 155cc means it isn't eligible

[jasonu]

Maybe someone should ask the MNZ for a decision or at least a clarification...