The youth...

[Indiana_Jones]

Same generation but entirely different culture.

Yea, but what makes them pick that culture? I'm a Pom and have seen plenty of other Europeans and Euro-Kiwis selecting this culture

-Indy

[Headbanger]

Crazy that anyone is queer enough in the head to believe that a person has the cultural right to deface other peoples property, and anyone who objects to this is in the wrong.

I suppose they have a career ahead of them as a winz case manager.

[Indiana_Jones]

Crazy that anyone is queer enough in the head to believe that a person has the cultural right to deface other peoples property, and anyone who objects to this is in the wrong.

I suppose they have a career ahead of them as a winz case manager.

Agreed.

They can dress silly and listen to crap music. But when they start fucking up other people's property it's just plain rude.

-Indy

[BoristheBiter]

Crazy that anyone is queer enough in the head to believe that a person has the cultural right to deface other peoples property, and anyone who objects to this is in the wrong.

I suppose they have a career ahead of them as a winz case manager.

fuck no, he's not that intelligent.

[jazfender]

Having grown up in Wainuiomata, I learned that the majority of taggers (most of my old mates, I never bothered, I had cars and naked women to draw) did so because they wanted to fuck someone off, it was not art, they hated the art idea. It was not an expressive thing, they just wanted to wind people up.
We ended up painting our fences with diesel to stop the paint from sticking.
I've been involved with that culture and I do not tolerate people defacing others property, or public property.
If you have something helpful to say that points us towards a root cause, I'd like to read it.


I'd rather not have some misguided, neglected hoodlum paint all over my stuff.
If they spent their time doing something practical, everything would be nice. Like, they could make me a cup of tea or trim my hedge.

You just touched on it with the "misguided, neglected" part. Practical, like work? If your solution is to just throw kids into the workforce you will need to provide jobs and training because there sure as fuck isn't much of that going around, even for the "adults".

You have some growing up to do, Perspective will come with maturity,Hopefully your delusion will lift. Petty vandalism is just that, and people don't want that scribble on our shit, And no one has the right to put it there.Your justification is pointless,weak, and pathetic. You are a disgrace. Take note that you are out of step with every single other person who has entered into the discussion, There is something to be taken from that, and its not that everyone else is a twat, its you.

The post wasn't made to highlight my actions which were fruitless and pointless but to raise the subject and highlight there arrogance and brazenness, Its not something to be proud of, Its not cultural, Its something that needs to be stopped, we as a community shouldn't allow it.

And that isn't a call to arms, Against children,even thick ones that's pathetic, They just need to be shamed.

Look, I'm not justifying my position based on other participants of this thread agreeing with me. If that's your strategy then whatever but it's not what I'm trying to do so you may as well drop that rhetoric.

Why do you think kids that are already disenchanted from 'our society' need to be shamed? Can you not see that this would more than likely INCREASE their cred amongst their mates?

Like I said, this ain't the fifties, these kids don't give a fuck about what some old dude on a bike thinks.

You make two good points here, and as another poster said, for most or many their parents couldn't care less about what they are up to.

Many of these kids grow up in an atmosphere of selfish irresponsibility, drunkenness and violence and are never given the time and attention they need with guidance for growing up successfully. Very few parents of even basically good kids think to teach consequences and outcomes of decisions the kids make.

Children need love and nurturing from birth and by 5 years old their basic personality is very much set. By 14, they are firmly established with their values and beliefs and behaviour. It takes intensive interest and persistent effort to turn such ones around and NZ simply does not have the human resources to do so for the thousands of wayward kids.

Get them alone and you can usually talk to them if you show an interest in them, it is possible to defuse the pack bravado too, if you approach them right. However, the worse their behaviour, the more likely they are going to be attacked by adults who are rightly fed-up with them. We are going to see more vigilante action and violence by homeowners against these kids.

Go into the schools and notice how the five year olds relate to their teachers, and you'll see one or two in a class with no feelings of respect or moral values at all. The poor teachers are tearing their hair out trying to engage the parents in meaningful conversation and to offer advice about child-rearing. With years of experience in early childhood education, my wife and I are constantly amazed at how ignorant many parents are and we shudder to realise their kids are going to grow up and take over. But you cannot tell the parents anything, they are defensive and anti-advice in the extreme!

This.

I love the smell of divide and conquer in the morning
and heart warming to see Jaz flying the aspie honesty flag
brings a tear to my eye.

However, remember whos house you are at nigger, jesters have a higher than normal mortality rate I heard...

Show some respect when in this culture... otherwise you'll have your ass tagged but probably with a cock and balls eh?

Would you defend whitey when cruising with the bros?....

According to this nutter I am now a black dude with Asperger's - like he somehow can't imagine someone defending others without them sharing the same demographic, skin colour or personal plight.

I never got a handjob. Just saying. I wanted one too.

I do enjoy you railing against stereotyping, and saying respect their culture then going on about "fat old white men". I am middle aged thank you.

whatever.

That's an oversimplification of what I'm saying but yeah, hypocrisy is the new irony.

Aww boohoo. FFS this isn't Lebanon, This isn't Sudan. Without hope? yer shitting me. Plenty of immigrants come here with sod all of nothing & try, fail, work hard fail, try again & make something of their lives. They are more disadvantaged.

And plenty of Kiwis go over to Auss & the UK etc & make something happen as well. Without hope? Lets all listen to Emo music.

I'm talking about kids and teens, how do they get out of their environment?

Lots of things are just an expression that offend others. You shout Racism, but then marginalise your own bigotry as just an expression.

There's a difference between hate-speech and idle colloquialism - context.

Well if its an expression hang on, I'd like to express myself by putting foot to ass, contains a stronger statement than a few ballbags (and whatever they decide to scribble) on park benches too I would think

Well both are illegal, what's the difference?

Strangely it (removing graffiti) does work.
West Auckland has a scheme financed by The Trust, where vans are able to go around eliminating any form of graffiti almost instantly. A hotline phone call and the area is graffiti-free.
A superb system and the "artists" know their hard work will be gone without recognition.

No. It is like a dog pissing on a lamp post trying to mark a territory and very little else.

I think you're confusing graffiti art with tagging. Anyway, how do you know it's gone without recognition? Yeah maybe without recognition by a fucking gallery but they're not doing it for that.

Does this hotline stop people from taking pxts of their shit and posting it on tagging forums?

Decent graffiti artists' can produce some superb artwork worthy of exhibition in public places and galleries. A shop on my road has a very nice mural on one exterior sidewall, yet there have been a few attempts to "scribble" on it by a, shall we say, "less prominent artist", sadly.

What is considered "worthy of exhibition" is defined by a culture they don't care for. Corporations have already capitalised on graffiti anyway, it's everywhere in marketing. That shows how powerful those social forces are.

Yea, but what makes them pick that culture? I'm a Pom and have seen plenty of other Europeans and Euro-Kiwis selecting this culture

-Indy

It's a dominating form of youth culture and is looooved by corporations. They have marketed the fuck out of street, hiphop, graffiti and "tough" culture. So there's another example of how pathetic and useless Headbanger's "stand" against taggers is.

[jazfender]

I need a beer.

[bogan]

Well both are illegal, what's the difference?

Not a lot if you ask me, both are pretty disrespectful (obviously a beating is the more severe of the two). Surely you wouldn't condone random beatings as valid acts of expression too?

[DrunkenMistake]

Cool Story Bro.

[Headbanger]

Look, I'm not justifying my position based on other participants of this thread agreeing with me. If that's your strategy then whatever but it's not what I'm trying to do so you may as well drop that rhetoric.

.

When you lack wisdom then look to your peers for guidance.

You haven't justified your position in any way,you're delusional

[jazfender]

Not a lot if you ask me, both are pretty disrespectful (obviously a beating is the more severe of the two). Surely you wouldn't condone random beatings as valid acts of expression too?

Nah but to be clear I was just mocking Headbanger's "stand against lawlessness".

[Swoop]

I think you're confusing graffiti art with tagging.

No. There is quite a difference between the two. The scribble of someone with a can/ink pen and another who can display quite a vast array of artistic talent is like difference between chalk and cheese.

Does this hotline stop people from taking pxts of their shit and posting it on tagging forums?

If they are clever enough to take a pxt at night (when most of this happens) then that might be the "fame" they get. Around here the graffiti is gone the next morning.

[jazfender]

No. There is quite a difference between the two. The scribble of someone with a can/ink pen and another who can display quite a vast array of artistic talent is like difference between chalk and cheese.

Absolutely, although what the majority of society may deem a scribble is seen as something entirely different within that culture.

If they are clever enough to take a pxt at night (when most of this happens) then that might be the "fame" they get. Around here the graffiti is gone the next morning.

Right, but that is all that's really needed. Your concept of fame most likely differs from theirs.

[george formby]

We have a kids play area at the back of our house which occasionally suffers from teens trying to wreck it & tag it. It used to happen fairly regularly with myself or my girlfriend giving the bored yoof a rev up for being so dumb & inconsiderate. Then we hit on a startling idea, going around to their homes & telling the parents. The vast majority gave the kids a bollocking but one or two families are just wastes of skin & threatened us so we called the cops who gave them a bollocking, recorded the tagging & started picking the kids up when ever it re-surfaced.
Apart from members of these families occasionally venting their dissatisfaction with society by vandalising stuff, things are pretty quiet now & I know a lot more people in my immediate community.

[ducatilover]

You just touched on it with the "misguided, neglected" part. Practical, like work? If your solution is to just throw kids into the workforce you will need to provide jobs and training because there sure as fuck isn't much of that going around, even for the "adults".

Practical, yes like work.
You're certainly right in regards to there being f-all of it around, I'm struggling to keep afloat and I'm a reasonably intelligent and eloquent young chap who is begging for work.
It's a shit situation these young rapscallions are growing up in.
If there is a solution, I'd love to see it.
My family does all it can for younger people who are "less fortunate", we foster two kids for CYFS, great kids too. But, easily misled and have had a shit childhood and in my eyes may have ended up as thugs if it weren't for my parents.
So that's two of them off the street, many more to go.

[BoristheBiter]

You just touched on it with the "misguided, neglected" part. Practical, like work? If your solution is to just throw kids into the workforce you will need to provide jobs and training because there sure as fuck isn't much of that going around, even for the "adults".
.

Practical, yes like work.
You're certainly right in regards to there being f-all of it around, I'm struggling to keep afloat and I'm a reasonably intelligent and eloquent young chap who is begging for work.
It's a shit situation these young rapscallions are growing up in.
If there is a solution, I'd love to see it.
My family does all it can for younger people who are "less fortunate", we foster two kids for CYFS, great kids too. But, easily misled and have had a shit childhood and in my eyes may have ended up as thugs if it weren't for my parents.
So that's two of them off the street, many more to go.

Bollocks, it has to do with right and wrong. It doesn't matter whether you are on the bones of your arse or have millions you still know right from wrong.

Call it what you like, graffiti, art, tagging, it is all just plain old common vandalism and should be dealt with accordingly.

Bring back the orange jumpsuit.