Cop pepper sprays Occupy protesters

[mashman]

This is what it comes down to - do the public want this?

While the protesters make their claims of "We represent the 99%, and we're going to reclaim democracy", I don't actually recall democratically electing these people to speak on our behalf - can you...?

Any attempt to point out that we don't want them to represent us, will be met with a dismissive - "You're not part of the 99%".

While the protesters and their few supporters claim to have a public mandate, it is in fact far from the truth. The closest they can get to defending that position is to demand proof that they don't. Meanwhile, the overwhelming evidence that they don't have such mandate can simply be dismissed as a media conspiracy.

They are fighting for our democracy, whether we want it or not. The irony is sadly lost...

Have they been asked?

Pretend that the 99% are a political party. If you're not a member, don't identify with their policies and have absolutely no affiliation with them at all, then you are not part of the 99% by your own exclusion Any clearer? They are speaking on my behalf, even if they don't for you. So not being part of the 99% isn't dismissive at all, it's a fact. We're closer to a plutocracy than we are a democracy.

You said it yourself, they have a few supporters. Therefore they have a mandate from the public. I'd be interested to find out, once everyone has heard the why's, how's etc... how many would consider themselves to be in line with the 99%. There's no overwhelming evidence until everyone has made their decision. By all means cite the current numbers that are currently protesting as evidence to support your point of view, but know that there are more supporters in the country.

Have you been along to get a real perspective on what their aims are? or are you going to rely on some crackpots internet ravings?

[SS90]

This is what it comes down to - do the public want this?

While the protesters make their claims of "We represent the 99%, and we're going to reclaim democracy", I don't actually recall democratically electing these people to speak on our behalf - can you...?

Any attempt to point out that we don't want them to represent us, will be met with a dismissive - "You're not part of the 99%".

While the protesters and their few supporters claim to have a public mandate, it is in fact far from the truth. The closest they can get to defending that position is to demand proof that they don't. Meanwhile, the overwhelming evidence that they don't have such mandate can simply be dismissed as a media conspiracy.

They are fighting for our democracy, whether we want it or not. The irony is sadly lost...

Here-in lies the rub.

It is pretty much impossible to actually ever find out "what people want", because, no matter what we think, we are all a controlled popultion, no matter where we live.

Just as an election is looming, the voting public (yes, even though I am on the other side of the world, I am making an extreme effort to vote) are inundated , all of a sudden with various "carrots" to sway our decision on which party we vote for...... free choice? not bloddy likely.... most of us will vote for the party that promises something that will benifit them, as an individual, not the collective.

Just as this ridiculous "Tea tape" shit has, simply by the fact that the complainant is the Prime minister of NZ, had exhaustive Police hours wasted on it (while other REAL crimes have gone un investigated) indicates that even in NZ, what is shown/perceived to be "popular opinion", is not, by any means, accurate.

Just as this website is not in anyway an accurate representation of Kiwi opinion.

I am sure many people are not aware that in th USA, something like 70% of voters are hardcore christian, CONSERVATIVE, which is in complete contradiction to what media (TV) suggest, which shows you the California, liberal fun loving carefree idealist, and suggests this is the norm.

So, what indeed "does the public want"?

I want an end to Wall Street worms destroying our planet and creating more poverty just to increase their individual wealth, as, quite simply, it has now shown, beyond a doubt that this is unsustainable (we are approaching our 4th year in global economic crisis are we not)

In my lifetime, as far as I am aware, the only cause that a tangible amount of people have got behind was the South African tour in the 80's, even then, it divided the nation.

I suggest that there are plenty of people in NZ that are in support of changes to stock markets and profiteering, however, as pretty much every Kiwi, on his worst day, has sweet FA to really gripe about, most of us are just going to want it all to stop so we can go back to watching Shortland Street ( or some such thing)

It's called apathy.

[Oscar]

Here-in lies the rub.

It is pretty much impossible to actually ever find out "what people want", because, no matter what we think, we are all a controlled popultion, no matter where we live.

Just as an election is looming, the voting public (yes, even though I am on the other side of the world, I am making an extreme effort to vote) are inundated , all of a sudden with various "carrots" to sway our decision on which party we vote for...... free choice? not bloddy likely.... most of us will vote for the party that promises something that will benifit them, as an individual, not the collective.

Just as this ridiculous "Tea tape" shit has, simply by the fact that the complainant is the Prime minister of NZ, had exhaustive Police hours wasted on it (while other REAL crimes have gone un investigated) indicates that even in NZ, what is shown/perceived to be "popular opinion", is not, by any means, accurate.

Just as this website is not in anyway an accurate representation of Kiwi opinion.

I am sure many people are not aware that in th USA, something like 70% of voters are hardcore christian, CONSERVATIVE, which is in complete contradiction to what media (TV) suggest, which shows you the California, liberal fun loving carefree idealist, and suggests this is the norm.

So, what indeed "does the public want"?

I want an end to Wall Street worms destroying our planet and creating more poverty just to increase their individual wealth, as, quite simply, it has now shown, beyond a doubt that this is unsustainable (we are approaching our 4th year in global economic crisis are we not)

In my lifetime, as far as I am aware, the only cause that a tangible amount of people have got behind was the South African tour in the 80's, even then, it divided the nation.

I suggest that there are plenty of people in NZ that are in support of changes to stock markets and profiteering, however, as pretty much every Kiwi, on his worst day, has sweet FA to really gripe about, most of us are just going to want it all to stop so we can go back to watching Shortland Street ( or some such thing)

It's called apathy.

That's funny - to call it apathy when people are ignoring a cause that you support.
I call it indifference.

[Virago]

...It's called apathy.

Bingo - I wondered how long that would take.

All too often, these fringe-dwelling groups with despotic leanings will take public tolerance and indifference as implicit approval and agreement.

The right to free speech and peaceful protest is a cornerstone of a democratic society, and the public will generally tolerate it - and perhaps embrace it. The mistake is to assume that such public tolerance is approval of your ideology.

[Oscar]

Bingo - I wondered how long that would take.

All too often, these fringe-dwelling groups with despotic leanings will take public tolerance and indifference as impicit approval and agreement.

The right to free speech and peaceful protest is a cornerstone of a democratic society, and the public will generally tolerate it - and perhaps embrace it. The mistake is to assume that such public tolerance is approval of your ideology.

The next step is to call the general populous "sheep", inferring that the activists just ‎know better, an incredibly arrogant attitude.


Also, could someone enlighten me on the use of Guy Fawkes masks by the protestors?
Seems an odd choice.
‎

[mashman]

The next step is to call the general populous "sheep", inferring that the activists just ‎know better, an incredibly arrogant attitude.


Also, could someone enlighten me on the use of Guy Fawkes masks by the protestors?
Seems an odd choice.
‎

Sheeple man, sheeple... at least attempt to get it right

In answer to the masks... watch V for Vendetta... on second thoughts you best not... the reason he wears the mask, kinda, is because he has been burned from head to toe. If you watch the movie you can draw your own reason for why he wears the mask. They're probably used for OWS because of the line "Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask is an idea, and ideas are bulletproof".

[SS90]

It amuses me that some people in this thread ascertain that "most people" don't want these protests..... Maybe in NZ where, no matter what you think, the global financial crisis has not REALLY had as big an impact as most other places... But I assure you in places like Europe and the UK, these last few years have devastated public services to the point that even street sweepers have lost their jobs.... Yet stock market and bank workers (despite even recent job losses) continue to receive massive "bonuses"

Unfortunatley,even if everyone in NZ did not care about this protest movement, the rest of the world, by In large, does.

Just check out UK papers and news reports for what really is "popular opinion"

[Woodman]

Ok so correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of what the Wall st protests started were because the US gummint bailed out a shit load of companies using taxpayers money, only for the same companies to then lay off shitloads of workers and then pay management extreme bonusses even though they were not performing.
If thats the reason for the protest, then fair enough in my book. All power to them.

[EJK]

YO PROTESTERS I'M HAPPY FOR YOU AND I'MMA LET YOU FINISH, BUT THICH QUANG DUC HAD ONE OF THE GREATEST PROTEST OF ALL TIME...





OF ALL TIME!




Fukn wimps bitchin about pepper spray.

[SS90]

Ok so correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of what the Wall st protests started were because the US gummint bailed out a shit load of companies using taxpayers money, only for the same companies to then lay off shitloads of workers and then pay management extreme bonusses even though they were not performing.
If thats the reason for the protest, then fair enough in my book. All power to them.

Yes, this is correct.

Does anyone still think that is is acceptable for Police to spray these same protesters with pepper spray?

I still question the legality of the Police officers actions.......

Who do you protect, who do you serve?

[BoristheBiter]

Yes, this is correct.

Does anyone still think that is is acceptable for Police to spray these same protesters with pepper spray?

I still question the legality of the Police officers actions.......

Who do you protect, who do you serve?

Not the hippies evidently.

I still liken it to saying to someone, go on hit me in the face and then crying when they do.
Surely they must have known what was going to happen.

[mashman]

Not the hippies evidently.

I still liken it to saying to someone, go on hit me in the face and then crying when they do.
Surely they must have known what was going to happen.

Why? I mean, you say that they're asking for it because they're there and legally protesting. Does the law have anything to do with why the, now "stood down", cops sprayed the protesters in the face? Or is it the same logic as, well she dresses like a slut, she was asking for it?

[Hitcher]

Let's all become protestors, live in tents on public land, shit in fountains, and bludge off the state whose actions we all hate. That sounds to me like an entirely sensible and sustainable basis to operate an economy. After all the only people who get to vote are rich pricks who own the law enforcement agencies.

[BoristheBiter]

Why? I mean, you say that they're asking for it because they're there and legally protesting. Does the law have anything to do with why the, now "stood down", cops sprayed the protesters in the face? Or is it the same logic as, well she dresses like a slut, she was asking for it?

even I didn't think you would bite to such a blatant troll as that.

[mashman]

Let's all become protestors, live in tents on public land, shit in fountains, and bludge off the state whose actions we all hate. That sounds to me like an entirely sensible and sustainable basis to operate an economy. After all the only people who get to vote are rich pricks who own the law enforcement agencies.

Funny when the media went to the occupy camps during the day and found they were all but empty. Could it be that some members of the tax paying public are protesting on public land? Perhaps instead of spending 20k/week on security, they could have installed a portaloo or two? Are you sure it was a protester that shat in the fountain? The current crop have a building or tow or three and a massive amount of resources and don't seem to be doing any better in terms of turning things around. Perhaps tents are the way to go .