Congratulations 48%

[Crasherfromwayback]

Really?

He mows his own lawns?

He is still a cunt.

There's no way that poof would know how to operate a lawn mower.

[Brian d marge]

exactly, more fool you.


The difference between us is I'm glad you followed a road that suited you.

None of which makes buying back the railroads at an inflated price a good deal.

I also have a different view , a view that seems to be gaining traction I feel.

Just Out of the discussion for a moment here , why would I be a fool , is it because I saw the writing on the wall , or wanted to better myself and my family , or most likely you couldn’t express yourself adequately.

Yes I failed , and am obviously STILL Failing, IF after 20 odd years , of saying the SAME thing OVER and over again , the intelligentsia , are believing the nice smiling man on TV.

You know in your heart what the truth is , but are to scared , or its to difficult to express, but don’t ruin yours and your childrens future , because of your fallibilities ...that’s selfish.

anyway I would go back to the Xbox,
now we are Down to fk off tosser , and you want me to even look up. from me coffee, ( in a manner of speaking) ........before going to the Xbox where the bright lights might keep you amused for awhile, flick on to the internet and look at why rogernomics came to nz..... no don't say I know why, have a wee look...
You might realize why tossers like me are not so keen on it (its not all bad, nothing rarely is)
trickle down? market forces? privatization?.... How are those power cuts , Violence, Acc , Revenue gatherers, ..Mining ? Mines? those lazy bums on the dole? ( were they really the result of the loony left? or more right wing policies?) )

Rogernomics, I suspect you. don't even know why it came into being
in fact I will go as far as saying you Dont know...surprise me.?

now you just regurgitate half truths ....at least I do some research on the subject...

condescending? arrogant, no not really, get annoyed with stupid people, yes totally...

good luck

Stephen
tossing since puberty and loving every minute

[Headbanger]

I also have a different view , a view that seems to be gaining traction I feel.

Stephen

You're nobody, You live in japan, and you have never written anything I have seen that would indicate you're anyone worth listening to.....so who cares?

Should we consult the French next?

[Brian d marge]

You're nobody, You live in japan, and you have never written anything I have seen that would indicate you're anyone worth listening to.....so who cares?

Should we consult the French next?

Sorry , I have no Idea about Xbox , you have got me on that one!..busted !

Who cares ..I did/do and will continue to do..... if it will keep the illiterati from making things worse

Stephen

[mashman]

Sorry , I have no Idea about Xbox , you have got me on that one!..busted !

It's a gaming console... better than the playstation 3 (another gaming console). They offer an alternative use of the telly.

[avgas]

Pretty much on the money. When Mother England paid us whatever we asked for our shit in exchange for the lives of a few thousand lads with rifles we were fine, but when that all changed we shut our eyes and pretended it wasn't happening. Most of the initial reforms were needed and worked well, but what happened next was the bad part. Using the pill analogy we kept on taking the same pill when the sickness was healed and when we stopped improving (because we were healed) we played around with the dose.

Depends. Do you think the Maori vote counts for anything?
If no, does any vote count for anything?

Mother England also gave us "the government". If you vote - you partake and believe in it position.
I used to wonder why people cut down flag poles. Now it makes sense to me.

[Winston001]

I'm not sure how we got onto Labour's buy-back of NZ Rail but I thought it was a bad commercial decision made for political reasons. Toll was/is a successful Australian company but they were haemorrhaging money on their rail investment here. They wanted out, they needed out, to pacify their bankers and their shareholders.

I actually respect Dr Cullen which is why I'm still surprised he negotiated the purchase at $665 million. He could have quietly prodded Toll with $1.00 for months until they finally gave in. Seriously - NZ Rail barely had scrap value. If the government had been patient instead of mesmerised by the coming election, they could have taken back rail for nix.

A real world example: Feltex was a very large NZ carpet manufacturer but over-borrowed and in serious strife by 2006. Their main competitor, Australian Godfrey Hirst looked like a saviour to do a takeover....but they didn't. Far too canny for that. They waited until Feltex collapsed completely and then bought up the mills and pieces they wanted for pennies. Far far cheaper than buying a sick company.

Back to Toll - canny Aussies once again. They got paid for something they didn't want and on top of that, kept their profitable freight business. Situated on Kiwirail sites. Its the sort of deal they study on MBA courses just to show how clever some businesses are.

Shame about the Kiwi taxpayer...

[avgas]

I guess we have a different definition of a fool.

Useless bit of history.
A fool was someone who reported researched events to the king in such a manner that was entertaining. The fools, musicians were often the only people who were aware of what happened outside the kings borders. They usually came from Journeymen who were what we would now call wise (especially in comparison to the religious wise, or the medical wise at the time).
The term "Fool", came about so the king could sound condescending to someone who was wittier than them and could "jest".

I always thought it was an amusing fact.

[avgas]

Back to Toll - canny Aussies once again. They got paid for something they didn't want and on top of that, kept their profitable freight business. Situated on Kiwirail sites. Its the sort of deal they study on MBA courses just to show how clever some businesses are.

Remember Ansett

We are just as nasty as they are.
You only have to look at the books of a few of the Aus/NZ banks to see why they are most generous to customers in NZ......there are probably a few other situations out there as well.

As for buying back the rail at the wrong time. Double edge sword.
- Should not have been sold in the first place. While there are state assets that I believe can be sold selling the complete Rail over NZ? Cost of replacement? Possible substitution?
- While we should not have paid $$$$$$$$ for it, they needed to make a statement and do some marketing. I would rather they did it with something the country can benefit rather than some ETS BS.
- Waiting for the rail to get cheap enough could be a bit like waiting for fine scotch and finding muddy water in the barrels.

[Indiana_Jones]

Cullen should of brought this,



Would of been a damn sight cheaper for the same thing.

-Indy

[Ocean1]

Back to Toll - canny Aussies once again. They got paid for something they didn't want and on top of that, kept their profitable freight business. Situated on Kiwirail sites. Its the sort of deal they study on MBA courses just to show how clever some businesses are.

Shame about the Kiwi taxpayer...

Uncanny, your two examples... nevermind. Toll not only accepted 'prox 300% more than market value for their interests in NZ rail they managed to secure on-going maintenance contracts arguably worth as much again, allowing them to drain the last few drops of blood from a corpse long cold.


God save us from politicians playing businessman, in the face of sharks like Toll they're complete amateurs.

[Headbanger]

I'm not sure how we got onto Labour's buy-back of NZ Rail but I thought it was a bad commercial decision made for political reasons. Toll was/is a successful Australian company but they were haemorrhaging money on their rail investment here. They wanted out, they needed out, to pacify their bankers and their shareholders.

I actually respect Dr Cullen which is why I'm still surprised he negotiated the purchase at $665 million. He could have quietly prodded Toll with $1.00 for months until they finally gave in. Seriously - NZ Rail barely had scrap value. If the government had been patient instead of mesmerised by the coming election, they could have taken back rail for nix.

A real world example: Feltex was a very large NZ carpet manufacturer but over-borrowed and in serious strife by 2006. Their main competitor, Australian Godfrey Hirst looked like a saviour to do a takeover....but they didn't. Far too canny for that. They waited until Feltex collapsed completely and then bought up the mills and pieces they wanted for pennies. Far far cheaper than buying a sick company.

Back to Toll - canny Aussies once again. They got paid for something they didn't want and on top of that, kept their profitable freight business. Situated on Kiwirail sites. Its the sort of deal they study on MBA courses just to show how clever some businesses are.

Shame about the Kiwi taxpayer...

Uncanny, your two examples... nevermind. Toll not only accepted 'prox 300% more than market value for their interests in NZ rail they managed to secure on-going maintenance contracts arguably worth as much again, allowing them to drain the last few drops of blood from a corpse long cold.


God save us from politicians playing businessman, in the face of sharks like Toll they're complete amateurs.

About fucking time some Calvary arrived, My position of ignorance is a difficult angle to fight from....

[Ocean1]

Remember Ansett .

Yes.

We are just as nasty as they are.

You obviously don't.

Air NZ bought into the basket case Ansett because it was the only way they could operate on what they thought was a level field with Quantas. This after the Australian government arbitrarilly canceled an open skies agreement with NZ.

Ansett predictably fell over later when it turned out to have been well gutted of any value.

Australian governments support their big business, to a fault. Ours fucks them over and then gives them to someone else to play with.

[Brian d marge]

from my notes.....

The New Zealand Rail sale in 1993 was organised by Faye Richwhite who then proceeded to benefit
from it hugely by taking a substantial shareholding – a conflict of interest fit for a post-Soviet state.
The main shareholders of the purchaser, TranzRail, were Faye Richwhite, Berkshire Fund and
Wisconsin Central of the US, and Alex van Heeren. They bought a company which had been freed of
debt by a $1.6 billion injection by the government. The price was $328 million, of which they paid only
$107 million and borrowed the rest.According to Brian Gaynor they "were responsible for stripping out
$220.9million of equity in 1993 and $100 million in 1995" .By the time they had sold out, they had
made total profits of $370 million,mainly tax free because of the lack of capital gains tax, and darkened
by accusations of insider trading
. Under Wisconsin's management the safety record was appalling
(by 2000, fatal accidents for employees were eight times the national average) and reinvestment and
maintenance were abysmal, leaving the operation in a crippled state. They sold out to Toll of Australia
who similarly failed to maintain the system, and who then sold it back to the government in two
tranches for a total of over $700million plus ongoing costs to the government of several hundred
million dollars to repair the rail network and replace the antiquated rolling stock. It is difficult to
estimate the total costs to the country, but the total cost to the government will be almost $4 billion
greatly magnified by the neglect of the private owners.

Stephen

[Ocean1]

from my notes.....Stephen

Substantially correct.

Ethics aside private owners have no incentive to spend money on maintenance or new capital projects. It's just more profitable to run it into the ground and then bung it on the market, pointing at the last couple of years revenue as a measure of market value. NZR went through several iterations of asset stripping through various "infrastructure management specialists" before it was handed back to the taxpayer requiring a decade of maintenance and a couple of billion in re-investment.

Ownership of hard infrastructure assets stretgically critical to the national economy should remain controled by the state. I don't think the same nescesarily applies to service industries, though.