Learner Ride to Taupo (Saturday 11 Feb 2012)

[Rehab]

I locked the fucking stupid key in the fucking stupid keyless fucking boot

Reminds me, when I was searching for a pic earlier (ended up with the dog one) I did an image search on Keys + Camels.... Nothing relevant sadly, but a whole lot of pictures of Alicia Keys with a totally different Camel to the one I had in mind. Just saying....

Fack look at the time, work in a few hours, damn this stupid site....

[newhere]

Reminds me, when I was searching for a pic earlier (ended up with the dog one) I did an image search on Keys + Camels.... Nothing relevant sadly, but a whole lot of pictures of Alicia Keys with a totally different Camel to the one I had in mind. Just saying....

Fack look at the time, work in a few hours, damn this stupid site....

Lolol I am not going to try searching that - the results might just terrify me from using google ever again lol

It is really late, or really early depending on how we look at the time. Stupid washing Good Night hmmmm or is that Good Morning

[Gremlin]

Following lines and giving advice are actually quite complex, with a lot of nuances usually known/found out through time in the seat. Professional instruction attempts to cover it all, in a cohesive form (rather than a Oh, one more thing).

However, I've given tips freely before, made a few learners on other rides think twice about assumptions they were making, and hopefully made a few safer. There are certainly some basics that can be done to assist a learner, but it's complimentary to professional instruction, rather than replacing it.

As for lines... well... books try to devote whole chapters to cornering. Quite simply, it depends. What's the weather, road surface, environment, debris, you, your bike, other road users etc etc and you can keep going. All this makes you alter a possible line through the corner, so realistically, the correct line is one that safe and allows you plenty of options for corrections. What suits one may not suit another, and some simply can't corner like someone else. Again though, as someone hinted, if they're braking all over the show etc, then there's certainly a lot of room for improvement and a few tips will probably help greatly. It's also extremely difficult to pass on the knowledge in a comprehensible manner, without swamping the intended recipient.

Nothing beats practise and learning through experience, the trick (and what Maha is trying to do) is getting people out there practising in a relatively safe environment, rather than being left to it. For those learning, I would suggest some theory, to expose yourself to some of the considerations and techniques, then put it into physical practise, and see if you can find a more experienced rider (hopefully with good skills) to give you feedback. For some, riding a motorcycle is extremely natural and reasonably easy (I'm fortunate to be one), for others, it takes a lot of practise and learning, rinsing and repeating. I know those types as well.

For my younger brother, who's learning to ride, I took him and a mate out on unfamiliar roads. They wanted to go faster but I controlled the speed since I was leading. By following my lead they found themselves learning about position, how corners open or close up and generally got a better feel about being on the road. I let them lead towards the end of the 200km, speed went up, lines went down the toilet and they were struggling more. Then I'm able to help them self-assess (which is probably the most crucial skill when trying to learn), and understand why I kept the speed down, and why increasing the speed suddenly made it harder. Etc etc, and so on, you get the point.

[OCD Legend]

I most certainly have not

YEAH RIGHT and never never had it over the speed limiy either aye Babe

[OCD Legend]

We all found it quite a comfortable pace, but yea those unpainted roads took a bit more concentration lol



Hahaha I am sure if someone tried they could drag their balls through a corner, it is rather low.

less distance to fall to the ground

[Maha]

Easter?

Sounds bloddy good to me, I'm not on-call that weekend. Sign me up.

Where ya thinking of heading?

Didn't realise that was easter weekend Stephen so no..not that weekend, to busy.
And where I want to stay want be a happening thing that weekend.
I will look at another date...which suits you around that time? other than easter.

[Maha]

sounds like it was another Awesome weekend - even if the last three or four pages of discussion should have been shifted to a different "Leading group rides" kinda thread.

Have a question. My better half is gaining confidence on her GN250. But its a pig dog of a bike on the open road. Doesn't like to corner at speed (it IS a GN after all), doesn't like to sit on 110kmh for too long, and is comfy at only 90 really.

So the question is this. After reading pages about cornering lines and so forth....just how fast were you guys going?

The mighty GN is capable of doing these rides...trust me on this.

Really good thought, all Lead riders/TEC's go the weekend before and do a recce of the route so everybody knows where they are going on the given day hahahahaha.

No GPS failures! no corner marking required and dang it we get an extra ride that I am sure could be blasted out in a day

Yes Grant, I will be having a look a one part of the next ride the week before.
I know the route well apart from one area. A 27km stretch.

To be governed by a GPS is all well in good, but when a slight change of plan is requested at the last minute you must revert back to how a group ride use to pan out pre GPS days.

[MSTRS:Me]

There's a certain picture on here reminiscent of...

[MSTRS:Me]

Haven't read all of the last few pages, but I feel I must comment a little on some of the issues that face group rides...

The leader must ALWAYS keep the pace at a level for the least capable rider to safely follow.
The 'slowest' riders need to be nearer the front, so the leader can see what's happening and adjust their speed sooner.
If the leader needs/wants to overtake another vehicle, s/he should calculate whether all the group can safely do so as well. Sure as eggs, they're going to want to try which risks either a pack manoeuvre or someone/s doesn't get past and has to 'go for it' to catch up.
The RUBBER BAND effect ensures that if the group wants to stay in sight of each other, then the nearer to the rear a rider is, the faster they have to go to keep in contact. If the leader sits on a steady 100 (say) the guy right at the back may need to hit 200 at times to not be left behind. FACT.
Always stagger the formation and leave a 2 sec gap to the bike in the other wheeltrack. Then you have a 4+ sec gap to the bike directly in front.
Group rides are not the place to practice lines. Take the line that suits you best in a corner, but don't loose sight of the fact that the other wheeltrack bike may be directly in front at that point.
Leaving a marker at a turnoff is a fine idea in theory, but in practice it seems to fail more often than not. Better to keep each bike in view of the one in front AND behind. Everyone can keep note through their mirrors and slow down if necessary. The pace will slow all the way to the front - the rubber band effect in action again.

Above all, there is almost always something happen that no-one thought of. And it is very common for even the smallest thing to compound, leading to a complete collapse of the carefully laid plan. The lead rider has to think for everyone, in a lot of ways, which makes his job really difficult. Scott, it sounds like you have learned some stuff too - well done, you'll be better next time because you now have a better appreciation of what to look for. Bit like your oops a while back...


Maha does a great job, and I doubt that any of the above is ignored when he plans a ride. I wouldn't be surprised if he had even more 'rules' in place. But then everyone on the ride needs to follow those rules. Small mistakes end up compounding, like I said. The trick is to keep those mistakes small and be prepared to stop for a break/whatever to keep the plan on track.

[MSTRS:Me]

...the 'naughty table' ...

What? Where? There was? How did I miss that?

[Maha]

I spoke yesterday about doing this ride again at some stage but making it a three dayer.
Doing a loop ride on the Saturday...
The Camp managers were way happy with us and have no problem with having us back (must try harder next time)
Another thing that was mentioned was that we all try and stay in the one area rather than spreed out like we were...less walking for one..

[blue rider]

I spoke yesterday about doing this ride again at some stage but making it a three dayer.
Doing a loop ride on the Saturday...

.....how many sleeps

[Maha]

.....how many sleeps

Many many...thing is, with the central north island during the colder months, is...there is ice and bitter cold to deal with.
With more rides in the making in Northland, it will be later in the year before we get back as a group.

[Gremlin]

Except pieces of Northland get cut off because of flooding and/or slips

Coldest I've had in mid North Island has only been about -4...

[Grant`]

Except pieces of Northland get cut off because of flooding and/or slips

Coldest I've had in mid North Island has only been about -4...

Which is awesome when you have an adventure bike, suitable waterproof/goretex/warm gear, heated grips etc....

Number of people on that ride didn't even have suitable waterproof gear - Lol I don't even know if my cordura gear would stand that sort of test