Road Code for Riders in NZ: how good is it?

[allycatz]

This is my dilemma in teaching somebody, not just the how but importantly the why. I'm getting advice & info from everywhere I can & deliberately doing the same things so I can explain them clearly.
I've realised that you need to know a helluva lot to ride a bike safely compared to a car, cars don't fall over.

The road position for a noob in a group is a head scratcher, but I guess you have to start somewhere. I believe a rider needs to use the whole of their lane to maximise visibilty & gain the biggest safety margins. Probably why I don't enjoy riding in bunched up groups.

My partner of 39 years riding experience has spent the last few weekends teaching me to ride my wee Scorpio. First mistake he made was assuming I would just jump on and cruise away....yeah right. Whilst he has been very helpful he has admitted that hes assumed I should know alot of things about riding thereby taking for granted that I would do it right the first time. Quite simply, he forgot what it was like to be a learner. He has the patience of a saint but I have still boooked myself into the Learn to Ride course before the BHS test next week because I know theres a lot of detail Ive yet to grasp and he wont think of

[george formby]

My partner of 39 years riding experience has spent the last few weekends teaching me to ride my wee Scorpio. First mistake he made was assuming I would just jump on and cruise away....yeah right. Whilst he has been very helpful he has admitted that hes assumed I should know alot of things about riding thereby taking for granted that I would do it right the first time. Quite simply, he forgot what it was like to be a learner. He has the patience of a saint but I have still boooked myself into the Learn to Ride course before the BHS test next week because I know theres a lot of detail Ive yet to grasp and he wont think of

Oh splendid!
My first forays on a bike were disastrous due to an assumptive teacher so I'm trying very hard not to make the same mistakes. So far so good, my GF is very happy & asks me every night "can we get the bike out?" The bugger popped a wee wheelie last night over some ruts when she thought I was not looking. She will be doing some proper training too, I know my limitations as a teacher & not having a structured program to guide her with. Getting it right, like the points the OP posed is vital for me if I'm sending my beloved out on the road.

[allycatz]

Oh splendid!
My first forays on a bike were disastrous due to an assumptive teacher so I'm trying very hard not to make the same mistakes. So far so good, my GF is very happy & asks me every night "can we get the bike out?" The bugger popped a wee wheelie last night over some ruts when she thought I was not looking. She will be doing some proper training too, I know my limitations as a teacher & not having a structured program to guide her with. Getting it right, like the points the OP posed is vital for me if I'm sending my beloved out on the road.

My first attempts at riding two years resulted in a cracked ankle ( a different bike) so Ive had a total horror of the throttle even to the point of getting the new bike out one day, sitting on it for ten minutes, finally getting off and stomping home again. Partner politely suggested "Some people shouldn't ride bikes y'know" and offered to resell the bike. Following weekend I decide that was it, make or break time.......well what a wonderful hour I had. No stalls, up to 50 kms and changing gear albeit a bit messy at times but finally something clicked and I can't wait to get back on it.....so onwards and upwards. I guess after 8 years of a chronic anxiety disorder (nearly healed) its been a case of "feel the fear and do it anyway"

[george formby]

My first attempts at riding two years resulted in a cracked ankle ( a different bike) so Ive had a total horror of the throttle even to the point of getting the new bike out one day, sitting on it for ten minutes, finally getting off and stomping home again. Partner politely suggested "Some people shouldn't ride bikes y'know" and offered to resell the bike. Following weekend I decide that was it, make or break time.......well what a wonderful hour I had. No stalls, up to 50 kms and changing gear albeit a bit messy at times but finally something clicked and I can't wait to get back on it.....so onwards and upwards. I guess after 8 years of a chronic anxiety disorder (nearly healed) its been a case of "feel the fear and do it anyway"

Good on you.
My GF took awhile to realise the clutch let you pull away, not the throttle, she was terrified of having the bike run away with her. She's getting better every day. hill starts tonight so she tells me

[p.dath]

1. When riding with a pillion passenger, which is more important:
A. Remember that it will take longer to accelerate/stop
B. Get the passenger to hold on tightly

I only have experience pillioning my wife (oh, and 4 of my children, ages 5 through 13). She doesn't hold tightly onto me - and I'd prefer she doesn't. If she did hold onto he tight, and I had to brake hard, she'd end up transferring all that energy through me. On the whole, I'd prefer she just flowed with the bike, like I do, and brace against the tank or the bar at the back of the bike.

Whenever I carry her I always take it more carefully. So I'd be picking 'A'.

2. Which brake is more powerful - front or rear?
Road code says front. But what does 'powerful' mean? Does it mean which wheel stops you quicker? Is this even useful question? We brake with both wheels in balance, more caution on the front.

I can't agree with you at all. I would measure "power" in this case as braking force - and the front brake clearly wins - but a long way.

3. When riding in groups, where should learner riders be placed?

I help run NASS (North Auckland Street Skills - free riding coaching for new riders). We put very new riders in the middle of the group. And the whole group rides at their pace - and it is the responsibility of the leader to control that, and tail end charly to make sure everyone makes it. This helps new riders learn lines, corner entry speeds, and lots of other things. It is allows us to afford them a degree of protection from other motorists.

We have never had an accident with a new rider in the group doing this.

I've seen first-hand a learner lose concentration and run into the back of a bike, putting two bikes and three people sideways across the tarmac with a dozen bikes coming up behind.

Perhaps the new riders were allowed to ride in formation. We brief our new riders to make sure to always ride at such a distance that you can stop short of the person in front of you, and that we prefer single file. Space is the friend of the new rider.

[Splineman]

I only have experience pillioning my wife (oh, and 4 of my children, ages 5 through 13). She doesn't hold tightly onto me - and I'd prefer she doesn't. If she did hold onto he tight, and I had to brake hard, she'd end up transferring all that energy through me. On the whole, I'd prefer she just flowed with the bike, like I do, and brace against the tank or the bar at the back of the bike.

Whenever I carry her I always take it more carefully. So I'd be picking 'A'.

Really good points p.dath. Only thing I will add is I have been hauling my wife /partner around for nearly 40yrs now and I reckon it's important for the pillion and rider to "get to know" one another. I can honestly say that excepting the extra weight I hardly know she is there. She sort of reads the road and the bike so to speak. But you still need to be aware of the weight and think ahead more.

I think the N.Z. road code is pretty good and there is heaps from ACC to help new riders. Back in my day, in Ontario Canada, it was a joke. Any size bike and a simple written test....laughable really.
Courses are well worth the money as well IMHO...

Cheers.

[skinman]

Yea I have to say if I know there is a new rider in the group i try to give them room as it can be a bit intimidating when a larger bike gets close, also it is a risk that they may wander in the lane or miss a gear or brake unexpectedly so you dont want to be too close.

[DrunkenMistake]

Hi all,

I just sat a learners test,
Any opinion here, and any other examples where the code might need another look?

Join Date
28th September 2008 - 21:23
Bike
1994 Honda RVF400 NC35
Location
Whitby, Porirua
Posts
28

Learner motorcycle riders:

can only ride motorcycles up to 250cc
cannot ride between 10pm and 5am.
cannot carry a pillion passenger.
cannot tow another vehicle.
Learner car and motorcycle drivers must display a learner (L) plate (multiple plates in the case of cars).

...




I found it more annoying the fact you get asked questions relevant to cars and not bikes for example, how to park a car when facing up a hill.. .. ..

[Jantar]

1. When riding with a pillion passenger, which is more important:
2. Which brake is more powerful - front or rear?
3. When riding in groups, where should learner riders be placed?

1. This one depends on how experienced the pillion is. I do thousands of km with my wife as pillion, and at times carry other less experienced pillions. Experienced pillions should be allowed to hold on where ever they are most comfortable. Inexperienced pillions should initially be advised to have one hand on the tank or grab bar if there is one, and the other hand in contact with the rider. The rider should be riding smoother and more conservatively than normal, allowing for the greater stopping distance and slower rate of change of lean.
2. No question. Front.
3. Depends on the size of the group. The less experienced riders should not be lead rider, nor tail end charlie, and it often helps to have less experienced riders interspersed with more experienced ones. This way the less experienced riders can watch the more experienced, and at the same time have an experienced rider observing and noting any bad habits.

[Berries]

On the whole, I'd prefer she just flowed with the bike, like I do, and brace against the tank

Inexperienced pillions should initially be advised to have one hand on the tank or grab bar if there is one.

In 20 odd years of riding I have only taken a pillion maybe a dozen times, but they've always sat behind me. What's all this with them bracing against the tank? Have I been sitting on the wrong seat and using the wrong pegs for all this time?

Now that's a bit of a hole in the Road Code.

[p.dath]

In 20 odd years of riding I have only taken a pillion maybe a dozen times, but they've always sat behind me. What's all this with them bracing against the tank? Have I been sitting on the wrong seat and using the wrong pegs for all this time?

Now that's a bit of a hole in the Road Code.

They reach with their hand(s) *around* you and brace their hand(s) against the tank. Then if you need to stop really quickly they are pushing against the tank and not you.

You continue to brace yourself as normal against the tank using your legs.

[Mrs Shrek]

They reach with their hand(s) *around* you and brace their hand(s) against the tank.

Not if Shrek is the rider they don"t.......
seriously though...as a pillion for 40 yrs I have found that hands lightly on the waist or hips of the rider & staying relaxed letting the rider ride is best. That way the pillion leans with the rider not fighting the bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FJRider]

Experienced pillions dont need to be told anything ... I often forget they are there ... (untill I get a slap on the side of my helmet )

It does take a little longer to get going/stop with a pillion ... but often this is more in consideration for the pillions comfort ... more than any other reason. (unless the bike is low in power)

Front brakes have more effect ... because as you brake ... all the bikes weight is transferred forwards ... with little weight, or braking ability, at the back wheel.

With the learner behind an experienced leader (literally to follow his/her lead) and as long as the leder remembers the learner is there ... and is careful with lines taken, and signals (indicators) given at the correct time (and copied by the learner)... usually there are no problems ...

[_Shrek_]

They reach with their hand(s) *around* you and brace their hand(s) against the tank. Then if you need to stop really quickly they are pushing against the tank and not you.

You continue to brace yourself as normal against the tank using your legs.

how could she

Not if Shrek is the rider they don"t.......
seriously though...as a pillion for 40 yrs I have found that hands lightly on the waist or hips of the rider & staying relaxed letting the rider ride is best. That way the pillion leans with the rider not fighting the bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!

& after nearly 30 years of you going to I can now relax

[Gremlin]

1. When riding with a pillion passenger, which is more important:
2. Which brake is more powerful - front or rear?
3. When riding in groups, where should learner riders be placed?

1. I don't know why you mention 250cc. You can only carry passengers on your full, most have larger bikes. You even state you're "already riding" blah blah. No, this question is from the beginning. The most important thing is remember acceleration and braking take longer. Then there are a host of other factors (inc the 2nd option).

2. It's not complex, and you even say the front is more powerful (not using the word powerful, but pretty much). The front brake has more stopping force than the rear. This may be incorrect for cruisers, where the rear brake bias is greater and the weight balance different. Locking wheels and surface area on road are all irrelevant to the basic question.

3. Learners (or the slowest riders) when riding in a group should be placed behind the leader. This allows the pack to stay together, the leader to know when the pace is too quick, and to keep an eye on the learners. If they are at the back you can't see if they're keeping up or dropping off. The last thing you want is to have them trying to keep up.