Road Code for Riders in NZ: how good is it?

**metagoo** · 9th December 2011, 09:11

Hi all,

I just sat a learners test, and while I did ok (been riding for 30 years in other countries), some of the question/annswers seemed really dubious. So just putting this out there to see what experienced riders think. Here are three examples:

1. When riding with a pillion passenger, which is more important:
A. Remember that it will take longer to accelerate/stop
B. Get the passenger to hold on tightly
What would you all answer? Forget what the road code says - what advice would YOU give a new rider? My point is that with today's 250cc bikes, we're using a fraction of the power, so pulling off is no problem, and with a pillion passenger I am already riding slower and safer and allowing for longer braking - not because of the load, but because my passenger is possibly not going to be used to how quickly I change speed and direction usually. My biggest concern is that the passenger holds on tight (not necessarily to me of course) and does not leave the bike. To ensure this happens, I'll moderate my riding. So answer A is secondary to answer B. But in the road code, answer A is more correct. What do KB'ers think?

2. Which brake is more powerful - front or rear?
Road code says front. But what does 'powerful' mean? Does it mean which wheel stops you quicker? Is this even useful question? We brake with both wheels in balance, more caution on the front. On a light bike like a 250cc maybe shift weight back to put traction on the rear. The front has more psi on the disks perhaps, but a front wheel slide is really bad news. The rear has more contact with the road and a slide is more manageable. PSI might not be relevant - both wheels could lock if we applied full force. So in the road code we're telling learners that the front brake is more powerful, but what are we actually telling them here? I presume the point is to understand the braking power of a bike. Any opinion? I think this question is pointless at best and misleading at worst.

3. When riding in groups, where should learner riders be placed?
Road code says just behind the leader. I've seen first-hand a learner lose concentration and run into the back of a bike, putting two bikes and three people sideways across the tarmac with a dozen bikes coming up behind. We've all seen youtube videos of cyclists and bikes going down and causing carnage. Where would you tell a learner rider to sit in a group? My view is, at the back where everything is in front of them and they don't need to be as aware of bikes left, right, in front and behind. But, open to wisdom here. What do we advise for rallies for example?

I understand that the road code is something to just be studied and regurgitated. But for new riders, that becomes their wisdom. Any opinion here, and any other examples where the code might need another look?

**metagoo** · 9th December 2011, 09:46

LTNZ put this draft paper out a year ago, and it seems to take a fresher look at some road code points - for example, group riding (put the learners on the inside left)

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/consultation...ide/index.html

**george formby** · 9th December 2011, 09:51

Weeeeee'll

I reckon A, regardless of how hard the pillion is holding on sudden acceleration or mis-judging braking distance because of the extra weight can lead to a topple. So awareness of this most important.

B, most of the time the front brake works the best, again, important for a learner to know. Reading what is required in the learner part of the test it say's the rider must stop in a curve using the front & rear brake, coming to a halt before putting the feet down. So I guess use of both is covered.

C, a learner is safer behind the lead rider if the other riders in the group keep their distance. Playing catch up from the back is risky for a noob.

Just my humble opinion.
I'm helping somebody get into bikes at the moment & putting a lot of thought into how & what I teach. I think the road code is deliberately kept simple to get riders started safely. It would be very difficult for noobs if they had to learn Twist of the Wrist to pass the test. Maybe not a bad thing though.

**MSTRS:Me** · 9th December 2011, 09:55

1. Takes longer to etc...

2. Front brake provides most of a bike's stopping power. Question isn't really misleading, but could be worded better.

3. Where should the learner be?

By being at the front, the learner sets the pace and the more experienced rider is in a better position to observe what is going on with the learner. In my opinion, the learner should be in the left wheel track and the follower in the right.

However, this question is probably looking for the answer = learner behind. TPTB probably think that a following motorist should be seeing an L plate in front of them.

**Katman** · 9th December 2011, 09:55

Originally Posted by metagoo

(been riding for 30 years in other countries)

It doesn't sound like it.

**metagoo** · 9th December 2011, 10:01

ok, cool. this is an education, thanks

This link http://www.rideforever.co.nz/going-f...ing/technique/ coupled with the link I posted earlier, basically says that new riders in a group should be on the left near the front. That makes sense - like it. So the code is not too bad in that respect.

My practical braking is probably not wrong, but I am not conscious enough of what I'm actually doing. When I apply both brakes, I'm doing more than just stopping, and I don't just use brakes to stop. But speaking only about applying brakes to slow the bike - yes, the front is doing more work in terms of braking. I just took a ride and had a think about what I was doing ...

Still not convinced about the pillion question.

**oneofsix** · 9th December 2011, 10:09

I agree with all the road code answers.
I suspect your trouble is you are 'skipping' the basics and thinking ahead of the learner because this is already second nature.
You may be only using a fraction of the 250s power etc but the added weight still makes a difference and providing you are smooth the pillion will go with the bike. Some times the hardest thing is teaching them not to hold on for dear life and not to resist the bike.
As the front dives under braking the front is where it all happens. Hence why most modern bikes have double disks at the front and not the back. It isn't just because of the chain or drive train, that can be worked around, it is because the braking mainly happens at the front.
The learner should be at the front of the pack, behind the leader for multiple reasons but the chief are setting the speed, so the leader can be aware of them and all convoys/groups are faster and brake harder at the rear by their very nature. I guess there are people on here that have driven army convoys and observed this as well as those that have been at the back and awake enough to work out what was happening on group rides.

**nodrog:Me** · 9th December 2011, 10:17

yeah you are right, im going to disconnect my front brakes, and tell me pillions not to hold on, while i dump the cluth as fast as i can at the traffic lights, and hopefully they dont get run over by the learner rider trying to catch up with his mates

**metagoo** · 9th December 2011, 10:28

Easy mate, No need for that. I said I'd ridden in several countries over 30 years. No claim to being a good rider was made ;0) why do you think I'm here asking questions of more experienced riders?

Being open to learning, being curious, questioning that's what keeps us safe. Stay out of the conversation if you have nothing actually useful to add

**MSTRS:Me** · 9th December 2011, 10:32

Originally Posted by metagoo

Easy mate, No need for that. ... Stay out of the conversation if you have nothing actually useful to add

You're new round these parts, aren't you?
DB is much more helpful - I'm sure he will be along shortly to teach you all you need to know.

**metagoo** · 9th December 2011, 10:36

useful stuff tx

**george formby** · 9th December 2011, 10:44

Originally Posted by metagoo

ok, cool. this is an education, thanks

This link http://www.rideforever.co.nz/going-f...ing/technique/ coupled with the link I posted earlier, basically says that new riders in a group should be on the left near the front. That makes sense - like it. So the code is not too bad in that respect.

My practical braking is probably not wrong, but I am not conscious enough of what I'm actually doing. When I apply both brakes, I'm doing more than just stopping, and I don't just use brakes to stop. But speaking only about applying brakes to slow the bike - yes, the front is doing more work in terms of braking. I just took a ride and had a think about what I was doing ...

Still not convinced about the pillion question.

This is my dilemma in teaching somebody, not just the how but importantly the why. I'm getting advice & info from everywhere I can & deliberately doing the same things so I can explain them clearly.
I've realised that you need to know a helluva lot to ride a bike safely compared to a car, cars don't fall over.

The road position for a noob in a group is a head scratcher, but I guess you have to start somewhere. I believe a rider needs to use the whole of their lane to maximise visibilty & gain the biggest safety margins. Probably why I don't enjoy riding in bunched up groups.

**metagoo** · 9th December 2011, 10:56

yeah when I was 16 and given an unlimited size, non-expiring bike licence, I just accepted everything i was told (and it was not all good advice) and passed my tests etc. Now thirty years later and it's opposite - the advice is good, but I've learned to question everything and try to rationalise it several levels down. So that makes me a hard student in some ways. No argument there ;0) I need to ride with newer eyes maybe though