Call for Ideas to Revive Road Racing in NZ

**Shaun** · 10th March 2006, 07:17

Originally Posted by FROSTY

now the F3 thing is something Im keen to see kept alive.
I know the guys riding 400's see it as unfair 650's (or 750's) being allowed into F3 but if F3 is to continue on into the future then we need to move with the times. there are no new or even nearly new 400cc machines coming into NZ the newest one is (i think) 1998 -so the bikes are getting old and by the nature of racebikes becoming higher maintainence.
650 twins at least are available new and nearly new -and for under 10k
The price will continue to drop as the bikes get older.
Im wondering if perhaps in the interem F3 should be split up into A and B grade -with a grade being 650 twins and MODIFIED 400/450s and B grade being stock 400s -they could start together but be 2 classes

Well said that man

**Ivan** · 10th March 2006, 11:30

Great Idea Frosty I'm keen to have a go at F3 racing but at the momment I dont have the dollars to buy a bike so will have to wait for a while pay my fine and pay some bills then startsaving up for a bike that I can race as well as my RS

**Kickaha** · 10th March 2006, 18:36

Originally Posted by Shaun

You need to get your facts write before you start babbling total bullshit like this, I thought you were educated

Well if he was babbling total bullshit then so were a lot of others as it was believed by a lot of people that supposedly were "in the know" the only reason the SV was allowed in was pressure from the manufactuer

Originally Posted by gav

Well, then maybe someone could come along and post the actual facts to clarify the situation? So then everyone knows, rather than people still left wondering......

What he said

**Shaun** · 10th March 2006, 19:31

Originally Posted by Kickaha

Well if he was babbling total bullshit then so were a lot of others as it was believed by a lot of people that supposedly were "in the know" the only reason the SV was allowed in was pressure from the manufactuer

What he said

Go back and read the rest of the tread before you get all carried away

I was trying to show a young and up an coming rider that it is not wise to go around running of at the mouth without total facts, ( even then)

So sorry this seems to have upset you, but I stand by what I have said and will not be drawn into the politics of what it is that you are asking me.

**Kickaha** · 10th March 2006, 20:00

Originally Posted by Shaun

Go back and read the rest of the tread before you get all carried away

I was trying to show a young and up an coming rider that it is not wise to go around running of at the mouth without total facts, ( even then)

So sorry this seems to have upset you, but I stand by what I have said and will not be drawn into the politics of what it is that you are asking me.

I have read all the thread ( not tread

)and I'm not upset by it at all and I agree with what you are saying about about going on with out the facts, but if people aren't prepared to explain then people may take rumour as fact

I don't see why it is not possible to explain how the SV came to be made legal to race in F3 and who put it through and I fail to see what is political about it unless there was manufactuer involvement

**TonyB** · 11th March 2006, 11:57

Here's my 5c (as 2c no longer exists)

For an answer I reckon we need look no further than the NZ car racing scene.
Think back to a few years ago the talented drivers were spread across a widely varying range of classes. Some of the classes were just plain stupid- for instance the Trans-ams. Rules differed between the NI and SI. Developing a competitive car cost so much money that usually only one or two cars ever stood a chance of winning. It was a true "deepest pockets wins" class, where so long as the driver had a bit of talent, money would buy the championship.

Then some bright spark came up with the idea of racing V8s. The rules were tight. The guys that had cleaned up in some of the other classes suddenly found the going a whole lot more difficult, because everyone was on a more even playing field. The racing was tight, people could relate to the race cars they were using. The crowds came, and suddenly the series became huge by NZ standards.

What motorcycling needs is a series that is INTERESTING! With tight regulations, and tight racing. It's been interesting to read through 3 years of posts. It seems to me that all the answers are in here. Listening to racers talk about the sheer expense of racing at the highest level got me wondering...

I'm not about to claim that ANY NZ motorcycling champion has won because of 'deepest pockets win'. Rider ability is such a huge factor that I don't believe that is possible. But I do believe that the racing would be a whole lot closer and more interesting if modifications were more limited, or banned all together. I believe there are riders languishing way back in mid field who could much closer to the pointy end of the race if they were on equal machinery. If it costs big $$$ to buy the bike, and then big $$$ to modify it, and then big $$$ to maintain it and keep it on good rubber, then why allow modification in the first place??? If the only major cost was the purchase of the bike, and then keeping it on good rubber (which it would use less of), wouldn't that be a better way to go?

I constantly read in mags "the performance of the (insert brand)1000 is equivalent to a factory Superbike racer of only a few years ago". So if they are that good, then why not race them standard? The racing would be much tighter and therefore more interesting.

If F3 is supposed to be an entry class, then why allow a modified new bike to run against some poor bugger on a 10 year old stock bike? If buckets are supposed to be cheap as 'buckets of shit' then why do the rules allow a commuter-bike-engined-friggen-GP-bike to line up against modified commuter bikes?

I have no problem with the guys who are doing this- they are acting under the rules. I have a problem with loose rules that allow people with the right resources to create a machine that beyond the reach of most of their competition.

**roogazza** · 11th March 2006, 13:24

Originally Posted by Kickaha

I have read all the thread ( not tread

)and I'm not upset by it at all and I agree with what you are saying about about going on with out the facts, but if people aren't prepared to explain then people may take rumour as fact

I don't see why it is not possible to explain how the SV came to be made legal to race in F3 and who put it through and I fail to see what is political about it unless there was manufactuer involvement

I don't think you'll ever get an answer to that. We all know Suzuki is very strong in this country . It goes way back to the 6hour black pipers of Dave and Nev Hissy . Then of course, who made our beloved 410 production class go to 550 ? For my money a class of production SV 650's isn't such a bad Idea , you just have to limit what the guys are doing to them.. G.

**FROSTY:Me** · 11th March 2006, 19:23

Is a frifgging nightmare to patrol --but I agree a proddy based class would be good.
Brand new SV650/kwakka650/hyusung 650 with the only mods allowed being tyres/brake pads and glass fairings replacing the stock ones.
No gearing changes allowed no shock changes etc.

**svs** · 20th March 2006, 13:06

Don't want to start a flame war, but F3 was never supposed to be an entry class. It is the only class in NZ that can be classed a 'tinkerers' class where you are allowed to mod the bike to try and make it go quicker.

Entry level is Streetstock or clubmans, the 2 main classes (600 and superbike) are both production based, you've got to have space for a proper race machine somewhere. With the 250GP class going then what else is going to happen?

I agree with you about the buckets though.

Originally Posted by TonyB

If F3 is supposed to be an entry class, then why allow a modified new bike to run against some poor bugger on a 10 year old stock bike? If buckets are supposed to be cheap as 'buckets of shit' then why do the rules allow a commuter-bike-engined-friggen-GP-bike to line up against modified commuter bikes?

**Cleve** · 20th March 2006, 17:18

Good point SVS and I agree. As a non tinkerer F3 became a too hard an option for me and I will look at it when some manufacturer produces an F3 legal "out of the crate" competitive bike. In the meantime I am doing the more expensive option of F2.

**slowpoke** · 20th March 2006, 19:50

Ok here goes...I gotta try and keep myself under control 'cos I just KNOW I'm gonna twist off and start ranting...again...
I'm currently in the process of moving back to NZ after just getting a taste for racing over in West Oz. With just one short track (Wanneroo/Barbagallo) and huge logistical issues getting to the Eastern States the folks over there are seriously up against it...yet they still manage to produce top class racers and national champions. So what are they doing right?
1/ They run Racecraft courses (run by vlounteers) for both Novice and Advanced road riders to get a taste of road racing and basic race skill coaching before they get to race in earnest.
2/ Structured feeder classes A, B, C and a Clubman class, which is basically run what you brung (even a streetbike with basic safety modifications), everything from a stock 600cc to a modified Superbike, and it's amazing how often a 600 will win in a field of inexperienced riders. If you win a Clubman race you are automatically promoted up a level. Races are still based on capacity and/or grade but you end up with several races within a race so everybody is competing for something.
Now this gonna hurt some people but there are NO BUCKETS (they ARE part of the Historic motorcycle club). Like I said, this gonna hurt, but spectators want to see a...err...spectacle. They want to see nice looking and sounding bikes, piloted at high speed...and buckets often fall short on most of these criteria. Sure they are cheap and fun for the riders but encourage spectators they don't.
The most popular entry is a 600cc superstock bike, with basically only a pipe and gearing change, which you are allowed to race in both the 600cc open races and the Clubman races until you are promoted out of Clubman. This way the guys who need the most practice (noobies) get the most track time.
The sooner we get someone competitive onto the world stage the sooner the profile and interest in our sport will rise. To do this we need to be getting young riders onto bikes with adjustable high/low speed damping, adjustable swing arm pivots/steering head angles and plenty of mumbo as soon as possible. Knowledge is power and if we can't give our promising young people the fastest bikes then we can at least give them plenty of experience with the tuning capabilities that will see them in good stead as the quality of their machinery improves.
I'm not even going to get into the "share around the prize money", "we're subsidising the top guys" crap...personally I'd gladly pay $100-150 to get a riding lesson from an Isle of Man champion or the guy who rode the Britten to victory the world over. Hey, if you wanna piece of the pie, ride a bit quicker.

**slowpoke** · 20th March 2006, 20:11

Originally Posted by Ixion

Sorry chasps , but present road racing is mind numbing boring .I'ed turn up at meetings and do the decent thing, but it' s BLOODY BORING. One multi coloured bit of plastic is ahead of another multi coloured bit of plastic - or vce ceersa . I should care less ? Terminal boring. And I can't even get a decent meal let alone something I could lure Mrs Ixion along to. Sort your shit out guys, make it interesting, provide some spectator facilities and maybe we'll come.Don''t keep trading on the "we're racers so support us regardless" shit.

So what the hell did you expect to see? I'm sorry but which part of "motorcycle racing" don't you understand? Surely when you thought "I'm gonna go to the bike races today" you KNEW you would see reasonably late model (plastic) machinery competing?
And you expected a "meal"? I doubt the advertisement featured the word "restaurant" in the any of the nomenclature. When you go to the rugby/soccer/V8's etc is the food substantially different? I'm not saying the food is fantastic but what did you expect?
For my money, if you don't find bike racing interesting and you are looking for a pleasant diversion then you are at the wrong venue.
Enough of the mindless bashing of our sport...if you've got a gripe, tell us what the problem is AND how you'd like to see it improved.

**Brian d marge** · 24th March 2006, 19:01

one of the reason Rossi is so hot is he can Dial in a bike real quick , list of 5 problems he can pick the worst one solve it and eventually dial in the bike real quick and effectively.

That come I assume from experience. ( Me personally, I kept on reading about suspension set up , then tried to ride and think about it as I was riding , but to be honest I couldnt tell the difference between Low speed and high speed damping if you paid me. Most of the time I am to busy sh!tting me self.

So one day I bolted the supension down ( I used a heavy oil in the rear suspension, and then had someone video tape it,,,MAN you can SEE the loss of traction...) but I learnt alot about how suspension effect the ride

So I completly agree there needs to be a clear path from entry level to the top level. I know about Australia and do like the concept!. But it doesnt address the bike set up. Gp125 I like and they are still reasonably cheap....there one here for 10 000 yen ..bit of an older model and a bit scruffy ..but its v cheap !

As for amenitys I am completely on Ixons side here, I want to go to the bike racing with the Family BUT the look on my wifes face ........ She needs Shops , ( she like bike racing coss Rossi looks cute and she like the colors )

A wind swept Ruapuna, with the lone Hotdog stand in the paddock doesnt qualify as entertainment. If it wasnt for the bike I would honestly watch Shortland street instead,.... Reruns as well .

Pearoa is great, ( or getting there , havent been there with the wife yet ...but we would soon find out, Sherrifs can lap in 1,44 , my wife with a credit card and the hint of an open shop , 1.26 ...)

Remember There are 2 others in my family not just me , and they also need looking after. At the last mx I went to there was a CLEAN sink with a mirror tissues running water plonked in the middle of this field.... Not for us rufty tufty racers.... but for the wives and girlfriends.....

Stephen

**FROSTY:Me** · 24th March 2006, 20:05

trying to think of an entry level class.
I thought 250 production was the way to go---But NO --there are only a couple of NEW 250 four strokes available and they are well basicly sloooow.
150 street stock looked good for awhile but sorta died out. (not dead but not supported at national level)
Then i thought--AHA -500 proddy racing.
500cc TWIN cylinder 4 strokes. Totally stock including external gearing.
suzuki still has the good ol GSX500 available new or the SV400 second hand
Kawasaki Has the ER5 or the GPZ500.
I'm sure Ducati have a 500 as well
These bikes are available New as well as there being plenty of thousand dollar cheapies that with a new set of rings would be just as fast as a new bike.
This would be a class where you could take your say $3000 bike and be able to race right up to national level.