Call for Ideas to Revive Road Racing in NZ

[Racey Rider]

In regard to Shaun Harris, I can see his gripe too. He's spent a hell of a lt more on his bike as an 'investment' and has more to loose if he doesn't win.
You need big prize money to attract the top guys and to keep them in the sport, but you can't neglect the n00bs in F3 either, as without them, there wont be a F1 class in 5-10 years. It's the new riders and those in the lower classes who need encouragement, and the top level who need the money.
Sorry, but thats the way it works.

But it shouldn't be about "a return on a investment".
If they want to spend huge money on hotups and crash mantainance, They should get their own sponsorship to pay their way. Can't find the Sponsorship? Then pay for it yourself or don't do it. But don't go taking money off the newbe's or from the promotion buget just so you can afford to keep being the Top Dog.
NZ is to small to be making a profit from bike racing. If you were to race in Australia for profit, I'm sure your sponsor will fly you home to NZ every other week.
If we were to sneak into the Australain National series (why would they want us?), and get one round in NZ (previous idea), that might create a bigger TV spectacle and get the ball rolling for more coverage and sponsorship. Then bigger prize money. More riders.
Racing Heaven! ?

[TwoSeven]

A thought that I had at cemetry when seeing the same old 5 guys going round is why are they not full time racing in Aus. Thats where they should be not here taking up spaces. If someone like MNZ was to levy a fee to help pay sponsership for their costs i'd pay it.

Its a real kicker when I go down to Ruapuna to watch the racing and I see a youngun with talent or a sponsered racer that needs development and opertunities riding round, because you know that they should be in aus mixing it up.

In the uk the bike teams keep an eye on the newbies and the home racers and its not uncommon for someone to be given an op to ride a bike out of the blue - i've never heard of it happening here - it may well do I guess.

What do the mx guys do, they must have gotten something right as where I used to live their used to be heaps of families and kids turn up for a day of kahuting about.

[bloodnut]

But it shouldn't be about "a return on a investment".
If they want to spend huge money on hotups and crash mantainance, They should get their own sponsorship to pay their way. Can't find the Sponsorship? Then pay for it yourself or don't do it. But don't go taking money off the newbe's or from the promotion buget just so you can afford to keep being the Top Dog.
NZ is to small to be making a profit from bike racing. If you were to race in Australia for profit, I'm sure your sponsor will fly you home to NZ every other week.
If we were to sneak into the Australain National series (why would they want us?), and get one round in NZ (previous idea), that might create a bigger TV spectacle and get the ball rolling for more coverage and sponsorship. Then bigger prize money. More riders.
Racing Heaven! ?

Well here's my views, from a person who raced at the top of nz racing for 6 or 7 seasons.

We need production racing, allowing a slip-on muffler only. (This is to give the sound needed to make a spectacule). You can race 600cc or 1000cc nothing else, two classes - everything else becomes open support classes.

At the moment to compete in one of the current classes and get a top ten you need min;

Latest Bike - $15000-20000
6 sets of tyres @ $500+ a set = $3000+
Kitted forks and shock $1500-3000
Race fairings - $1200-1500
Brake lines and pads - $500
Engine work - $2000-10000
Spares ?
Power commander - $500+
Race stands - $300
Paint job - $300-1000

This is just the basics which come to $25000- 40000+
And then when you try to sell it at the end of the season you cant sell it for peanuts.

When I competed in the superbike class it cost me 30,000- 40,000 a season and I and friends did all of the work on the bike so this dosent include labour.

So you can see that $125 price money (if you are lucky enough to win) is an insult really. You just burned $500 worth of tyres to start with.

If you dont offer some incentive the top riders will do as you say and stay away, then what will road racing be like?

If we could get more sponsors we would. I personally received $30,000+ thousand dollars a season but still managed to spend every cent I got each year as well.

On top of that is the time committement required to compete at the front. Basically your whole year must be focussed around the series, all of your holidays will be used up going to meetings. You also have to con a helper or two to do the same as well!

If you forced everybody to race completely stock bikes with a muffler and re-jet and got a cheap control tyre deal going the costs above would almost half.

The other reason I stopped was practice. You go to a national points three day meeting to get three 10 min practices. What the F**K? How can u set-up a bike in ten mins? World suerbike teams struggle with 4 one hour sessions . Then you get to a street circuit and you are lucky if you get three flying laps for each practice, and this is among a million different bikes that are all over the place, chookies, classics, big bikes little bikes you name it.

The top two classes need to be put on a pedistal, with decent practices and podiums presentations, trophies etc or no one can be bothered - lets face it the money isnt the reason you are there.

Sure support classes are a must, but in there place.

Anyway my two cents
Jared Gillard


By the way I dont know of anyone in Road racing to make a profit - you must have been kidding?

[Kickaha]

1st of all there is no regular access to the tracks - ride days (here in chch) are few and far between.

There is no mini-moto at the tracks (its done but not as far as I know by the bike clubs).

You can hire the track every Tuesday and Friday for $50 for 1/2 day get a group of mates together and get out there

Minimoto would be a waste of time at Ruapuna even on the short track

Day licences are now available and there are now classes to race the 250/4 to get the younger guys into it

The top two classes need to be put on a pedistal

And who decides what the top classes are,just because they spend more money and have bigger bikes that makes it the top class?

lots of guys in the so called lesser classes put just as much time and effort into their racing and contrary to what some people believe not everyone wants a 600cc or 1000cc to race.

[FROSTY:Me]

Jared
I couldn't agree with you more re production class except re bike size.
Yep control tyre -and sponsored by the manufacturer --maybee like a brand thats a bit out of favour at the moment.
I think you need a size bike that is easy on tyres and brakes but offers good close racing--remember the old 250 proddie days when we were all on TZR250's ?-good close racing and big entry feilds.
Given how fast a moden 4 stroke 250 is I think they would be as fast as we were on the tzr's
Thinking about it maybee MNZ needs to have control of the nationals taken off them and it be run and promoted by a company looking to make money.
Bad as that sounds Itll mean Heavy promotion so big crowds. Itll mean bigger purses for the winners from gate takings and posters and stuff like that.
At grass roots level I repeat that Pacific Mcc series at Taupo could teach the "big boys" a lesson or two.
Day licences for those wanting to have a go in clubmans for the first time.
2 20 minute track sessions during the day for non racers
Classes set up to cater for all the bikes that attend
I remember years ago a meeting was run on a grade basis -a grade b grade c grade and d grade.
4 classes meant 16 races a day so everybody got 4 races.
The class you were in was determined by lap times not bike size or setup.
The top 3 riders in B Ya hit the nail on the head re practice and track time in general Its a bloody joke.

[Kickaha]

The other reason I stopped was practice. You go to a national points three day meeting to get three 10 min practices.

That's why every National event I have attended has an unofficial practice the day before the offcial qualifying/practice

Now thats not possible at a street race unless you want to increase costs even more,but everyone is in the same boat

MNZ in their wisdom took away the day licences which caused a bit of grief also if you fronted up without your licence it was "no licence,no ride" even if the official knew you had a current one,thankfully they are now available again

Thinking about it maybe MNZ needs to have control of the nationals taken off them and it be run and promoted by a company looking to make money.

Great idea about an outside promoter,it's been suggested before and I think it's how the car guys do it?

Track time is limited by the conditions of hire,at Ruapuna you have to be off the track at 5pm,and I'm guessing most other tracks have similar conditons? and the only way to increase tracktime would be to amalgamate classes or have less of them.

Jared I take it the $25000+ for a season include club days as well? and I'm guessing a large part of that would be in tyres alone?

[bloodnut]

And who decides what the top classes are,just because they spend more money and have bigger bikes that makes it the top class?

lots of guys in the so called lesser classes put just as much time and effort into their racing and contrary to what some people believe not everyone wants a 600cc or 1000cc to race.

If you want a class that will draw the crowds and encourage riders off there couch then you must have a top class which uses powerful bikes (as history shows, how many people watch the motogp class or the old 500 class versus the 250's and 125's?) so 1000cc fits perfectly.

You need a feeder class to the top class, this needs to be on bikes that are similar or it doesnt provide the experience needed (ie going from a 250 four stroke or even a 250gp bike to a 1000cc proddy bike is a massive step) therefore as 600's are a smaller version of 1000cc bikes this fits.

Also young riders must aspire to greater things and that can only be Australia or World superbikes/supersport which are based on these bikes, so the progression isnt too large.

I tried to implement these ideas at MNZ conferences - three or four times, during the ninties and got shot down mostly by clubs who didnt have a clue about road racing or had some hidden agendas. Remember every club has a vote on these issues, so even though you are voting on a road race regulation shit-box dirt bike club's from the middle of nowhere, decide the outcome (as theres far more of them) - completely nuts.

There should also be a non- championship race that is completely open. This will encourage bikes like the Britten, BSL, Jimmy Steadmans Two-stroke 750cc beast amongst other creative bikes lying in sheds around the country. This would be an excellent class for those slightly off the pace race bikes to come back out of storage! This would also prove popular for the spectators and promoters.

Cheers
Jared

[TwoSeven]

I do agree with the bikes should be unmodified but with an end can on, and I would suggest that for the top classes as well. If you look at a modern 600 the kit thats on it is not far off race spec anyhow - including road tires.

Many of the factories do race version of their bikes that are sold without all the road kit to make them cheaper for the racers. Triumph and Aprilia and Honda all do this - not sure about the others.

Proddy racing has alway been about buying a bog standard bike and thrashing it - whats more the new bikes are not that much more faster - if at all than ones that are knocking on 5 years old, so even those who have older bikes can still stay competitive.

Once you allow modifications to be made then it comes down to those with the most money rather than those with the most skill, and those without will eventually lose interest and quite.

When you talk about premier proddy classes it has to be 600 and litre bikes because thats whats common on the road and for sponsers show casing what is likely to sell is what gets the punters buying.

I do like the F3 class where everyone on the other machinery gets to zap round. So you could have F1 as litre bikes, F2 as 600s and F3 as the others (of any capacity) and all classes should be open to anyone.

Motards (its the new world craze) should still be a class and so should the classics and chairs if there are enough.

[bloodnut]

You can run as many support classes as entries allow, just make two classes NZ championships and make them special, give them extra practice and longer races. The top class should form on the dummy grid with umbrella girls - all that sort of stuff.

All the support classes just add to the program, i also agree with jazzing it up a bit, FMX displays, burn-outs and wheelie comps etc spice it up!

cheers
Jared

[Kickaha]

You can run as many support classes as entries allow, just make two classes NZ championships and make them special, give them extra practice and longer races. The top class should form on the dummy grid with umbrella girls - all that sort of stuff.

All the support classes just add to the program, i also agree with jazzing it up a bit, FMX displays, burn-outs and wheelie comps etc spice it up!

cheers
Jared

The majority of the people (racers)I asked at that John Britten meeting said that while it probably all looked good for the general public lining the bikes up,umbrella girls,tyre warmers etc they thought it was a big wank that took up time that could have been better used and they got pissed off waiting for the races to start,but more importantly they did realise it provided a good show for the public as thats what they see on TV when they watch GP/WSK

I think a ride by like Wanagnui so the public can put faces to the names would be good as well.

Dont agree with only two championship classes,all that means is that some guys won't ever race in a NZ championship as they either dont wont or can't afford a 600cc or 1000cc,I race sidecars myself so that counts me out of the championship as well

Motorcycling Canterbury a couple of years ago had a stunt rider out in the lunch break,he put on a very good show and was well received,at the JB meeting I think they had some FMX guys but it was a bit windy for them and they had a couple of 250 Superkarts out in the lunch break(making the bikes look slow), I think they also need more stuff for the Kids to make it more attractive as a family day out.

What about having the manufacturers have their new models on display,that created a bit of interest at the JB meeting with the new CBR1000 and I think Eric Woods had a display in the tent along with the Britten display some 250 Superkarts and Sidecar landspeed record attempt,haven't seen anything like that at the Nationals in recent years

As for your points about how many watch the GP1 or the 500 class compared to the 250/125 quite valid but I've found a lot of that to just be snobbery when the reality is the 125 class has been the best to watch for race action for several years but because they're only "little" bikes a lot of people think they're not worth watching

I dont beleive the problem is with the classes or how many races or how long they are,it is all to do with the promotion of the events and getting people to attend them either a racers or spectators,the JB meeting was better promoted and advertised than the nationals ever have been in the last few years and got the crowd support as a result but even with good prize money on offer that the 600 class wasn't very well supported and the Motard class was dropped

[bloodnut]

1) The majority of the people (racers)I asked at that John Britten meeting said that while it probably all looked good for the general public lining the bikes up,umbrella girls,tyre warmers etc they thought it was a big wank that took up time that could have been better used and they got pissed off waiting for the races to start,but more importantly they did realise it provided a good show for the public as thats what they see on TV when they watch GP/WSK


2) Dont agree with only two championship classes,all that means is that some guys won't ever race in a NZ championship as they either dont wont or can't afford a 600cc or 1000cc,I race sidecars myself so that counts me out of the championship as well

3) Motorcycling Canterbury a couple of years ago had a stunt rider out in the lunch break,he put on a very good show and was well received,at the JB meeting I think they had some FMX guys but it was a bit windy for them and they had a couple of 250 Superkarts out in the lunch break(making the bikes look slow), I think they also need more stuff for the Kids to make it more attractive as a family day out.

What about having the manufacturers have their new models on display,that created a bit of interest at the JB meeting with the new CBR1000 and I think Eric Woods had a display in the tent along with the Britten display some 250 Superkarts and Sidecar landspeed record attempt,haven't seen anything like that at the Nationals in recent years

4) As for your points about how many watch the GP1 or the 500 class compared to the 250/125 quite valid but I've found a lot of that to just be snobbery when the reality is the 125 class has been the best to watch for race action for several years but because they're only "little" bikes a lot of people think they're not worth watching

5) I dont beleive the problem is with the classes or how many races or how long they are,it is all to do with the promotion of the events and getting people to attend them either a racers or spectators,the JB meeting was better promoted and advertised than the nationals ever have been in the last few years and got the crowd support as a result but even with good prize money on offer that the 600 class wasn't very well supported and the Motard class was dropped

Ok, its good to get some discussion going on road racing. I'll answer your questions one at a time.

1) 1st priority - you must look after your sponsors, therefore this is good for sponsors so shorten the programm somewhere else to make allowences. If the presentation takes too long shorten it, evolve the set-up as we go.

2) I'm talking solo classes, sidecars are an excellent spectacule and must remain, they are an important part of NZ's road racing history. The other solo classes are welcome too run at the national meeting but as support classes not championship. You must have stepping stones and goals for racers too aspire to.

3) Totally agree.

4) I agree that often the best racing is in the smaller classes however watching a rider man handling a wheel spinning monster is an excellent sight and like v8 supercars thats what the crowds want. We need crowds therefore we need big bikes.

5) Good promotion is important but you must first have a spectacule to promote, get the top 50 riders in nz into the top two classes on similar showroom models with full manufacturers supported teams, cheap control tyres, imagine twenty nutters on very similar performing machines flying into the first turn! Then you have something to promote. The race practice is to short to make bike set-up anything more than a lottery and I challenge any racer who has done some mileage at a competitive level to disagree! It is un-safe and mad to have such short practices, and all so they can run three classes of classics or separate 125 gp and f3 races, this country is PC mad.

cheers
Jared

[gav]

Hey Jared, I remember you, you used to race a YZF750SP, white with green logos?
I'd like to see more involvement with the Aussies, if we ran race series say now, wouldnt some of the top Oz teams be interested in racing here as practice for their champs etc? The Bears guys were able to bring over some Oz talent for Sound of Thunder, why not talk to some of the top teams over there, maybe run a home and away series?
Always thought it a shame that say Peter Clifford couldnt look at running Simon Crafer on the Red Bull Yamaha here a few years ago, so many of the top GP teams have kiwi crews, would have been cool to see him race here, be cheapish pre season testing for them, wouldnt it?
Shame we never got to see Aaron Slight race here after he was dumped by HRC, why didnt Honda talk to him about running in our Nationals?
I went to the V8's here at Ruapuna and the following weekend back again for the bikes, shame the weather was shit for th bikes, but the cars certainly put on a good show. Awesome in the pits, all top teams had brolly dollys handing out posters and stuff, posing for photos etc. Really good to see.

[NordieBoy]

I don't know about road racing - but in the off road community there is a backlash against MNZ,they all want to get away from anything to do with MNZ - and that's why things like Desert Storm are so successful...pay and ride.Bring back the day licence.

Things like the Laidback Trail rides here that you just turn up to on your 2004 CRF 450 and the next guy is on a 1979 XR250 and there's some kids on 50cc quads and all pay $25 or so and everyone has a ball from 11am till 2pm or so.

The last one we had was on a day forcast for heavy rain but that cleared before the event started and we still got around 100 bikes and this was a 2 1/2 hour drive from Nelson. People were heading off to it thinking it was going to be raining all day and they still went.

Family involvement.
Fun.
BBQ.

The VMX races here usually have a track set up for the kids to putter around on as well - Day licenses no problem - MNZ? who are they?

Family involvement.
Fun.
BBQ.

That was the last Nelson Port race as well. They are closing off the back straight for log storage. Other venues are being looked at though.

[Motu]

True,and you don't need spectators either - no one spectated at Desert Storm or enduros,VMX,trials.The modern spectator has been conditioned to be fed drama in big doses,they need to be pandered to - and they aren't enthusiasts,just thrill junkies wanting a big prang to make their day.

I'll repeat Nordie

Family involvement
fun
BBQ

[Racey Rider]

Here's a thought I'm batting around.

I'm still a newbe as far as racing goes. But maybe I can help out other Newbe's to get started on the track.

I'm going to try and ride the full Winter series.
So Maybe I could be a Newbe Rep at the Vic Club rounds.
I have a tent thing that could have desk with info on it. I could wear a bib with "Newbe Rep" on so they know they can ask me basic questions.

Futher more, I could maybe hire my 150 out to them to ride in Clubmans for the day. Say $40 + crash damage? It's only a cheap bike so no big deal. and if they didn't crash it, I could still ride in Streetstocks too.
They would need their own helmit, but maybe a big old set of leathers could be supplied? Boots? Gloves? Basic training.

Might suggest it to Vic club. But what other things do I need to think about??
If a newbe could get a race days clubman riding for say $100 all up, would some be interested as a first experamental go? $100 = $40/bike, $30/day license, $30 club fee. Shame we have to charge them all those fees at all really.

If it were to work, we could then lobby Kawasaki NZ to lead us a new KRR150 or two to sponsor a one day track ride programme, aimed at getting newbe's on the track riding their (Kawasaki's) bikes at no charge. Get Dunlop to sponsor the tyres for said bikes.

What am I missing?