Call for Ideas to Revive Road Racing in NZ

[That Guy]

Always thought it a shame that say Peter Clifford couldnt look at running Simon Crafer on the Red Bull Yamaha here a few years ago, so many of the top GP teams have kiwi crews, would have been cool to see him race here, be cheapish pre season testing for them, wouldnt it?

I agree that would've been cool for kiwis to see; but it would not have been cost effective in any way. It probably cost upwards of $50,000 USD to do one test (fly away test that is, like Sepang or Motegi; NZ would be no different by the time you get 7 tonnes of bikes and equipment air freighted out here; 20- 25 staff flown out etc) - and you've got to be sure you're getting useful test data etc for that kind of money. NZ tracks are no where near being good enough, or safe enough, to offer any meaningful test data unfortunately. Plus a major factor in testing at tracks that you race at is you get set up data for the race in 6 months; and you have an established bench mark lap time from the previous race.

Otherwise you're talking about a pure promotion thing were one bike, rider and mechanic would get flown out and do some laps in between racing - still would cost $10,000 or so; and who would pay for that? Not the team; that would be an additional expense for the sponsor if they wanted it; and Red Bull's market in NZ wouldn't warrant that.

Pity. Nice idea though.

On the topic of makeing road racing more popular I must emphasise Frosty's comments - PMCC are doing something right - nearly 100 riders at a club meet? They're doing something right....

[TwoSeven]

Even renting a bike would be too expensive for NZ. I once had the opportunity to pick up to Aprillia RS250s that had their factory lease expire (and the team was picking up some new machines). They were going for US$60k each - which included a bike, and 2 engines.

I doubt there would be a team in NZ that could afford to even run one for a weekend.

[bloodnut]

That's why every National event I have attended has an unofficial practice the day before the offcial qualifying/practice

Now thats not possible at a street race unless you want to increase costs even more,but everyone is in the same boat

Jared I take it the $25000+ for a season include club days as well? and I'm guessing a large part of that would be in tyres alone?

Shore if you can afford the time and money you can practice an extra day, however even on these un-official days you still only get 15 -20 min sessions max and if you are a privateer you will be on old rubber.

How can you test if your tyres are going to last a fifteen lap race if practice is 5 -8 laps?

How do you determine if your jetting is right with the engine temp at full hot in five laps?

How do you find out if your gearing will be ok in another riders slip-stream?

As your speed increases all of these things need re-adjusting such as gearing, suspension set-up and jetting, and as any rider worth his salt will tell you "only make one change at a time", so as your set-up advances you often get more problems to solve in less and less practice time.

Sure you say everyones in the same boat - or are they, the guys on the factory supported bikes can afford to test outside of the national series, us privateers can't - period.

When i raced I lined up beside Robert Holden on a supplied BMS Ducati, Jason or Andrew on the Brittens, Haldane on a 955 corsa, Russell Josiah and Tony Rees (who both owned bike shops) on well developed superbikes, these guys (except Tony) would be throwing new tyres on for every practice session were as I had 1 set for each entire meeting.

Young up and comers who don’t have a dad who owns a bike shop have no show.

Most of the riders above raced all over the world then returned at xmas to race our series while I had to work 6 days a week at a job to pay for the 6 weeks of racing @ the nationals, so no riding all year until just before the champs began. Talk about an un-level playing field.

We need a class everyone can afford that isn’t to technically advanced for the new comers.

The top 2 classes should have 2 x 30 min practices on the Saturday with full commentary and lap times through-out. We must build up the rider’s profiles and personalities and make it a spectacle for the public.

Cheers
Jared


$25,000 a season includes tyres and travel, entry fees, petrol, oil, brake pads, chain and sprockets, engine reconditioning and development and paint work, chassis development, sponsor promotions etc etc etc.

[Paul in NZ]

One of the biggest motorcycle race events in NZ is the Pukekohe Classic Festival of Speed!

It's well advertised.

Has an easily identified central theme.

Has international 'stars' supporting the theme. (that feature heavily in the adverts)

Has something else to look at. (displays of vintage bikes etc)

Has something to interest the whole family.

Usually has an air display at lunch time.

Has knowledgeable and interesting commentary.

Vicki even enjoys it for 3 whole days! I think the people that run the events have forgotten a basic fundemental. If you want a big event you have to provide the crowd with entertainment. It's not all about racing, thats not quite enough these days, people expect a little more!

Perhaps a live band at lunch time? A few fair ground attractions. A giant screen with onboard camera action? Technical sessions for riders wanting to take up racing complete with a have a go session?

Perhaps you could win a new bike if you buy a ticket?

Paul N

[Ghost Lemur]

New Zealand is and will be (for the foreseeable future) a nation where if you want to do this sort of thing you do it for love.

If you want big prize money/prestiege move to UK, US, Europe and try your hand with the big boys there.

NZ just doesn't have the population to sustain things like this on a scale that means people can make money. It's not just racing either, the NZ music scene is the same way.

Some years ago I had the chance to meet Che Fu's sister-in-law, and she told me that him and the other members of Supergroove only made $5k each off of the multiplatinum, award winning Traction album. Hense why even though he's hugely successful, he was still on the dole. If they'd made that album (with the same success) in the US or the UK or even AUS they'd be millionaires.

Just a fact, when living in a country with less than a quater of the population of London. If you want that to be different, if you want the money to be here to sustain fringe activities like motorcycle racing, then you have to be willing to accept the concequences.

This would mean increasing imigration. More city congestion, increasing the population to at least over the 10 million mark.

Can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

[TwoSeven]

I took my dad to the cemetry circuit for the first time - he quite enjoyed it. However, these are one off promo events. Bike racing happens every weekend not once per year, so what you do needs to be different on the saturday than it is for the promo stuff.

Also, national events and series are just a string of promo events that are linked together. Again its different from the local stuff held at the local track.

Until the clubs get it together, forget about having a national series or anything else because the grass roots is where its all at.

I cant remember when I saw the local club in christchurch do any advertising on the radio etc, and the bike shops seem to be living in the 10th century BC when it comes to local promos.

[FROSTY:Me]

keep in mind here -Im out there doing it not a sideline racer.
we are almost all in the same boat. Shit motor sport is expensive -there is nothing we can do about that. To get more people into the sport we
A- need to get more people to come along and watch.
b)get new blood feeding into the pool.
We really don't know how easy we have it in NZ --try racing in the UK --sure theres a shit load more racing -but theres also a shit load more expense.

[svs]

There's some good comments going on here - I guess much of it has been said to MNZ before - Do we say it again?

I agree with having say 2 championship classes and superbikes plus support. The best support series I have seen in the UK, we the one make series. Ones that spring to mind were Aprilia RS250, Honda CB500, BMW Boxer Cup etc. All these had bike available from the manufacturer and decent price with control exhausts and tyres. No other mods allowed other than setup and jetting. That would be great everyone is out on nearly the same bikes - and as long as the series run for 3 to 4 years there are always older bikes available as people move up the classes.

Time gibbes' SV series was a step in the right direction - I've even got one of the original bikes - shame it couldn't have kept going.

At club level you still need F3, clubmans, classics etc. so everyone who wants to race can. Just make the nationals a bit special - put on a stunt show at lunchtime or something, but give the punters some spectacle to watch.

[TwoSeven]

We really don't know how easy we have it in NZ --try racing in the UK --sure theres a shit load more racing -but theres also a shit load more expense.

I know its changed now but when the cibby 600 F2 came out there were 50 riders on the grid at brands within a couple of months - all on stock bikes. Most people just taped up the lights and away they went.

The only expense to be had was when the bike was binned and the odd set of tires. Thats why I like proddy racing so much.

[Ghost Lemur]

I think there are two different areas which seem to be getting discussed as one.

Firstly the grassroots racing. To me this is the vital area, if people are good enough they can progress to race in Aus, Uk, etc. So what's holding the grassroots back? From an outsiders point of view, money. It has to be affordable, crowds, prize money, etc mean nothing if you can't afford to give it a go. So how can that be solved? One area where I think it is being solved is here. How many people have got into racing through KiwiBiker? Whether it's been encouragement, advice, parts, help in repairs, whathaveyou. It's all helped. And that's what's needed. More support for the entry level. I'd hate to have a talented son who could go on to grand things, but be able to even get him into a starting point.

If you have that grassroots the rest follows. You'll have more talented riders moving on to the international stage, which will in turn mean local coverage will be increased. Which will make it more attractive for sponsors/spectators to go to the higher level races. I think on the higher level, one area which needs to be preserved/furthered is the actual street races, Wanganui, etc. These seem to becoming rearer and rearer internationally. Also maybe make the top national season shorter, less races. This makes it more affordable, plus less common and therefore more promotible(sp?).

My main point though is still NZ can not sustain a major motorcycle series. So don't try (at the moment, that could change down the track), but rather work on getting guys through the grassroots (see even the national series as an aspect of the grassroots) and onto the international stage.

Maybe do a kiwi team in the aussie series, like **** (can't remember what they're called sorry) did in the v8's.

[Kickaha]

My main point though is still NZ can not sustain a major motorcycle series. So don't try (at the moment, that could change down the track), but rather work on getting guys through the grassroots (see even the national series as an aspect of the grassroots) and onto the international stage.

Maybe do a kiwi team in the aussie series, like **** (can't remember what they're called sorry) did in the v8's.

NZ can and has sustained major motorcycles series in the past and is quite capable of doing so in the now and in the future,but to do some will require some changes in the running and promotion of these events

What's changed in the past years?

Well TV coverage has declined,all the major events used to be live on TV and now we see them weeks later if at all,if the Nationals were on live and the next round heavily promoted at each screening I beleive we'd get more public through the gate,at the very least if not live then on TV before the next round

Advertising for these events is just about nonexistent,last year several people I spoke to weren't even aware the Nationals were on in Chch,in contrast the National car rounds are heavily promoted on TV and radio and attract large crowds,the only thing I saw for the local round was a few posters and these were only available a 2-3 weeks before the event

All of this require substantial sums of money or sponsorship to acheive
If people don't know it's on they won't be there

The National season isn't a long one,it runs over 4 weekends at four tracks,normally two rounds on consecutive weekends a short break and two more rounds,it's not a long season,although it requires a fair amount of travel and time off work.

Grassroots is fairly well catered for,with at least one club day a month and 3-4 have a go days a year to attract more people onto the track,a lot of people don't progress further than doing the have a go days,so how do we get them to take the next step?

A lot of local riders will also only support the local National round and quite a few will only run in the support class due to a reduced entry fee saying that the $140 entry fee is to expensive when they'll only be a backmarker

A Kiwi team in the Aussie championship would achieve bugger all if the people here don't know about it due to no TV coverage and even then I don't see that it would have much effect,I feel a better idea would be to get Aussie teams to race the NZ National series to increase the numbers on the grid and raise the level of competition(sidecars did this about 94-95),I think their rules are slightly different though but perhaps we could align ours a bit more closely to encourage Trans-Tasman competition.

[gpercivl]

Thanks to Racey Rider and others for reviving this thread I started when I thought it might be possible to influence how to get more people involved in road racing in NZ. I'm involved in 2 mc clubs, general committee for a road racing club & treasurer for a MX club so have been trying to do my bit to help out.

Both clubs have seen a drop off in riders and spectators over the last few years and it seems that the riders are moving to more deregulated events where they don't need MNZ regulations. MNZ re-introduced the one day license late last year and we saw numbers increase by a third or more at our MX meets...which should be a clear message to MNZ to make it easier to get people on bikes.

Personally I started racing 6 years ago at the age of 38 after watching road racing since I was 17. I made the mistake of starting on an F2 bike with too much performance and without the awareness of what correct tyre selection can help/hinder the learning curve. Hence I crashed a lot and slowed my learning curve. In 2003 I moved back to the F3 class and learnt heaps, and am now considering moving back to the 600 class with hopefully improved skills. Agree it's going to cost $25,000+ to get started which I'll probably be paying off for the next few years...but it's heaps more fun than F3!

I'm in strong agreement with Bloodnut, keep the 600 & 1000 class as true National Champ events, our youngsters Hayden F., Karl M., and Ross K. went across to Aussie last year and struggled to gain a point in the Formula Xtreme series which shows us where NZ road racing level is at.

Run a separate series for the grass roots riders as Tim Gibbes tried to do. In the USA there are at least 3 different levels of series catering for rider abilities culminating with the AMA. I've been lucky to spectate and talk to the riders at a few of these meetings while travelling for work and these are guys at my level, paying all their own costs. Their costs and travelling distances are about treble ours in NZ. As the up and coming riders evolve in the lower series they get picked up and sponsored into the higher series due to the amount of money 300 million people generate...in NZ we can't hope for that sponsorship although some is available if you develop relationships with people in the industry and outside (personally I'd rather that money go to the youngsters rather than oldies so I can watch the Slight's, Crafar's etc when I'm 60).

Motorcycle racing can't compete against play station, gamebox and xbox time so we can't hope to get the spectators back like we did at the old 6 hour's & Marlboro series years ago. Jap import cars have stopped the students only being able to afford to buy a motorbike when they left school and then getting hooked on motorbikes so making it easy to get riders on cheap entry classes is the only way to grow rider numbers again. PMCC are making it very easy to go ride on a track and so too are Vince Sharpe's Track Times. Hopefully with Taupo & Hampton Downs race tracks being developed we will have world class tracks to attract overseas competition so all is not bad for NZ.

AMCC & Vic Club are both well aware of all these issues but what they both really need are volunteers to get more promotion done and help with spectator entertainment, stunt riders etc. All the clubs I know are struggling to get enough people for quorums at meetings let alone try to take on any extra activities so if any of you do have some extra time, put your hands up at your local mc club, it can make a lot of difference.

Anyway, happy new year to all Kiwibiker's for 2005 and hope to see you all and race against some of you at a track again this year.

Cheers, Greg

http://www.nohair.co.nz

[TwoSeven]

i'd agree with that - also the bike shops must know what the younguns are buying, so whatever that is, should be a class.

The other thing for grass roots level is track access. Here in chch, events are few and far between. You spend months waiting for an event and then miss it because you forgot its on.

Also, there are quite a few folks with bikes they have for racing, but again, by the time there is an event on they've lost interest and are doing something else that weekend.

[gav]

Here ya go, mark these dates down on your calender!
Motorcycling Canterbury calender

[TwoSeven]

Cheers,

I might not be able to make the 4th of december at the moment. Still working on the tardis