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Thread: Race chassis

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    But would they have ended up using conventional suspension?

    Dude, someone's got to make the mistakes, otherwise we'd never find the non-intuitive solutions you don’t get using iterative development processes.
    I'm talking specifically the rear end....did you hear the one where andrew wasn't available for testing but Holden was ? Robert only did a couple of laps and came in saying "the shock's fucked" .....but Andrew was going well on it just the other day !!!
    Yep, it was fucked, no one noticed, and Andrew just rode around it....The guys would be the first to admit they weren't suspension technicians.

    Which raises the frame builders nightmare....can you trust rider feedback ?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    I'm talking specifically the rear end....did you hear the one where andrew wasn't available for testing but Holden was ? Robert only did a couple of laps and came in saying "the shock's fucked" .....but Andrew was going well on it just the other day !!!
    Yep, it was fucked, no one noticed, and Andrew just rode around it....The guys would be the first to admit they weren't suspension technicians.

    Which raises the frame builders nightmare....can you trust rider feedback ?
    Not always, but you can trust the stopwatch and at the end of the day,the rider has too ride the thing.
    Did you read the NSR500 development story i posted on the ESE thread?Click the arrow after the Husaberg.

    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Cathcarts Story of the evolution of the NSR500
    The most successful GP engine in History?
    then this one

    the first 3 pages
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post

    Bellow some 90's GP stuff
    And this one
    Then compare it to Cagiva it is certainly a joint effort. (will post later.)
    It seems if Kockinski used to spend all practice changing trail and head angles only to end up going back to where they started. Having said that Cagiva used to change every thing every year on the bike anyway. Where as Doohan knew what he liked they built generally after a while what he liked.So they changed little "No need to build a new frame just cause its got a few more Hp every year" so he then got to ride the thing alot.
    An overlooked bit there time on a bike.
    Practice and familiarity would make a big difference to assessing suspension and other setting modifications

    On the subject of the Britten the engine character has a lot to do with handling i wonderhow many handling quirks disappeared with the introduction of the slipper clutch.I can imagine a lot of chatter on over-run without one.



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    But would they have ended up using conventional suspension?

    Dude, someone's got to make the mistakes, otherwise we'd never find the non-intuitive solutions you don’t get using iterative development processes.
    4th time.,,, becoming a habit.
    the more mistakes the more you learn, just got to minimize the cost

    friend of mine used to use the floatation baths in bromely chch ( the settling ponds to u and me)
    he would drive past and throw his days experience in to the ponds, if it floated it was a keeper

    stephen
    ya can't beat the floatation test

  4. #154
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    Formula Cub/Bantam the early UK equivilent i guess for buckets

    There are a couple of good ideas here.
    I especially like the movable seat.
    Why? because the rider would have to be the biggest influence on on the bikes weight distribution.
    The other one is the homemade QD fairing mounts.
    The coiling of the wiring is a novel idea i had never heard of either.
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  5. #155
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    I'm always dubious about adjustable seats - it's the very last thing you want to have move when you're racing. Build it to suit the rider and leave it fixed IMO. To be thorough if you put an adjustable seat on, everything else should be movable too - handlebars and pegs included.

    the fairing mount is a tad complicated. I use a two bolt fixing to the fairing with a rectangular plate bronzed to a short tube. A crosstube attatched to the frame goes inside these and the whole is held together with an R clip on each side of the bike. Just mount everything up and drill through the tubes in place for the R clip holes. Two bolt fixing to the fairing spreads the load better IMO.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    I'm always dubious about adjustable seats - it's the very last thing you want to have move when you're racing. Build it to suit the rider and leave it fixed IMO. To be thorough if you put an adjustable seat on, everything else should be movable too - handlebars and pegs included.

    the fairing mount is a tad complicated. I use a two bolt fixing to the fairing with a rectangular plate bronzed to a short tube. A crosstube attatched to the frame goes inside these and the whole is held together with an R clip on each side of the bike. Just mount everything up and drill through the tubes in place for the R clip holes. Two bolt fixing to the fairing spreads the load better IMO.
    A tad yes (Fairing set up) but i still like it. Plus it is simplier than it looks and good antivibe quailties as well as speading the load.I like ag pins as well.
    I can't really picture yours though maybe a picture would heip me.....er... picture it......

    Agreed no one wants a flopping seat or sub frame either, but The seat set up is the sturdiest adjustable one i have seen.
    The footrest i had covered but whoops in another thread.
    Micks set up I like for its simplicity. Pics below.
    The handle bars are no problem of course.

    Seen this today as well for the diesel bucketeers
    Quote Originally Posted by OllyMoto View Post
    Right here's the finished design for the rearset/ footpeg position adjuster plates.

    Any productive ideas to change the design are welcomed before i make a batch next week.

    See the pics for a better explanation than i can type. but basically you get an adjuster plate the two mounting bolts and 2 linkage rod extensions to allow for the setting you choose to run with.

    I can also make up custom length linkage rods and will be making a batch of std length ones as i know they always get bent/ broken.

    The plate gives basically 6 options for alternate postions from std in incraments of 20mm. (either 20mm back or 20mm up or 40mm back or 40mm up etc).


    They weigh in at a little more than i would have liked at 200g with all the fitting components included but i fear that if i waste any more fom the design it may become too weak and fail too prematurely, altho if requested i can try and waste more out to bring weight down but i doubt it would be much, 50g max.


    Give me an indication on what price you would put on these per side. The pics are of the last prototype and the finished design will have a better finish but i ran out of materials to do another proper run to display. (Materials are on their way next week).

    The other side would be "as this side" and would be supplied without the linkage rod adaptors. I plan to make all components available seperatley to make for economic repair if required.

    Cheers,
    your feedback is much appreciated
    Olly
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  7. #157
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    Titanium as a frame material

    Yes it can work but not if you just use the same design as steel.

    BSA would have again won the world Champs if only they had not been "helped" by management.
    They were doing ok without them.

    There are more thorough accounts of the bike but i do like the story esp the last bit from a schoolkid. Kids say the darndest things.

    The other bit suggests Suzuki's race department with the racing waterbus never read the memo.
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  8. #158
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    I do like Kevin Cameron's writing style. Just finishing re-reading his TDC books which are a 'best of' rollicking history read. Find 'em on-line & buy them (1&2).
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  9. #159
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    I like his stuff as well

    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    I do like Kevin Cameron's writing style. Just finishing re-reading his TDC books which are a 'best of' rollicking history read. Find 'em on-line & buy them (1&2).
    Never seen the book though. His ambling style is great. Jenning's plus a few other Yanks are also among my favorites.

    Here is an article posted, if for no other reason, than it has more pictures of a beautiful NWS frame.
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  10. #160
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    More NWS

    It is rather ironic that, the dude would build this bike when, he could have just used a Blade or Baby blade chassis.
    Oh well it wouldn't have been as much fun i guess.
    It is even crueler irony that it took Honda another 4 years or so to figure out people wanted an alloy framed 600.
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  11. #161
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    Rubber Mounting

    Hello Bike builders. I am fitting my FXR engine in an NSR MC21. At the moment I am getting vibration through the seat of the FXR with the worked engine I have. None through the bars so not much of a big deal.

    My thought is that with the stiffness of the Ali frame I might encounter more vibration. Not good for any welds or my ass and hands. So I want to rubber mount the engine. I can get hold of a book with lots of rubber / steel type bushes that I was going to press into the ali spars that I am making to hold the engine. A picture would be better I know. Long sorry short. What is a good way to rubber mount an engine?

    TA

  12. #162
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    i'd argue that it's just as likely perceived vibration would be reduced in the alloy frame...Alloy is somewhat less prone to resonances due to the thicker section material used.
    rubber mounting is difficult to do well - torque reactions to chain pull have to be accomodated.
    i'd try it solid mount first.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    i'd argue that it's just as likely perceived vibration would be reduced in the alloy frame...Alloy is somewhat less prone to resonances due to the thicker section material used.
    rubber mounting is difficult to do well - torque reactions to chain pull have to be accomodated.
    i'd try it solid mount first.
    Interesting and very helpful. Well solid will be a hell of a lot easier. I should be able to bolt it in with no welding. If I did need to weld a new mount any major issue's to look out for. (the welding would be done buy a pro). 25kg engine with about the same hp.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by richban View Post
    Interesting and very helpful. Well solid will be a hell of a lot easier. I should be able to bolt it in with no welding. If I did need to weld a new mount any major issue's to look out for. (the welding would be done buy a pro). 25kg engine with about the same hp.
    The RS125 engine was rubber mounted (NF4 from memory I guess they junked it with the balance shafted NX4). Not sure about the RS250 and NSR250's.
    They allegedly don't last that well.(The Rubbers)

    No techno explanation but the alloy frames don't seem to damp out the vibes as well My CR500AF is a case in point.
    Maybe it requires a different balance factor. I don't know, but it certainly vibes more than a std framed one.

    The other thing with rubber mounting the engine is, all the exhaust etc will have to accommodate the engine movement as well.

    Amazing how different head steady's can affect the effects of vibes though. Whats your plans there? (is the FXR mounted as a stessed member std likely is i guess so moot)

    Loved the BOB footage BTW. Mid race stuff esp was excellent. Was that F5Dave you passed like he was standing still



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post

    Amazing how different head steady's affect the vibes though Whats your plans there?

    Loved thre BOB footage BTW mid rsnce stuff was excellent was that Dave you passed like he was standing still

    (head steady's) who's on the what now? Do you mean steering damper? Well the engine that has the balance shaft still is a little smoother but the one without does vibrate a little. I will sold mount it to start with and see what happens. If it vibrates bad I will try rubber mounting. I hate vibration, it can really put you off the fun stuff.

    Well I did catch Dave at the end of the race to put a lap on him. But I am sure he wasn't standing still. I like the hoogie vid as well shows my little crash rather well. This year I might need to get fit. Just completing BOB is becoming rather hard.

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