Race chassis

[Manu24]

My opinion, is that making a carbon motorcycle, inside a motogp team is impossible, they move huge budgets of money that is not yours, that means they must have results to keep getting this money from the sponsors. Carbon is a very big jump, everything is different, and it needs years until you reach a result that improves what already exists. But I am convinced that this will arrive, you just have to watch the automobile industry, or cycling, even the rest of sports. I am convinced that the time and dedication that I am going to give to my project, will not be in vain.

[Frits Overmars]

Anyone able to franslate froggy to the Queens tongue.

Yep. But wouldn't you be more interested in a Spanish-English translation? I could do that too, if only there were more hours in a day.
But hey, Google is your friend. And Google Translator is always good for a giggle .

[Frits Overmars]

My opinion, is that making a carbon motorcycle, inside a motogp team is impossible... Carbon is a very big jump, everything is different, and it needs years until you reach a result that improves what already exists. But I am convinced that this will arrive...

It has already been done decades ago, Manu. For example the Armstrong-Rotax 250 and the Heron-Suzuki 500. And of course the Ducati MotoGP.
Ducati gave up on carbon because they found it too difficult to design in the necessary amount of lateral flex that their front tire required.
But I think there is a better solution now: https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131030204
so we may see carbon GP-frames return in the not too distant future.

[Manu24]

It has already been done decades ago, Manu. For example the Armstrong-Rotax 250 and the Heron-Suzuki 500. And of course the Ducati MotoGP.
Ducati gave up on carbon because they found it too difficult to design in the necessary amount of lateral flex that their front tire required.
But I think there is a better solution now: https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131030204
so we may see carbon GP-frames return in the not too distant future.

I know those bikes, but they are very old, the world of composites changes every little time, in all this time has been much advanced. Carbon is not a metal, the position of the fibers, the type of fabric, resin used, resin ratio and fiber reinforcement, and of course the design, make it can be a disaster or an exceptional piece, only curing can change the result.

This means that a few tests are not sufficient for such a volume of variables. Just have to see in motogp, all these years of experience of aluminum, and still continue to discard many chassis in each test that do not work well.

Ducati of motogp, did not have carbon frame, simply did not have frame! A piece joins the engine with the steering shaft. If they had asked me before I would have told them that the carbon does not work well, kidding, they sure know a lot more than I do, but my prototypes will make me learn.

Finally I feel my English of google translate. I prefer to continue making motorbikes instead of learning another language

[Bert]

Good work Manu.
I've been following your facebook page for a while now, with interest.

Did it start as a school/uni project?

[guyhockley]

(Sorry, Husaberg, another foreign language one...but it is a picture gallery)

http://www.classic-motorrad.de/galer..._display_media

The timeline is interesting - did he know about the Britten, or parallel development?

[Grumph]

(Sorry, Husaberg, another foreign language one...but it is a picture gallery)

The timeline is interesting - did he know about the Britten, or parallel development?

Possibly a bit of both...The Britten was publicised around 1989 but didn't go funny front end till the "slimline" in 91/92.
That front I'd reckon owes more to the european versions which were around before then.

John never claimed the layout was original, always quoted the Vincent as inspiration for the "frameless" style.
That one very definitely has a separate frame.
Nicely done though.

[husaberg]

Possibly a bit of both...The Britten was publicised around 1989 but didn't go funny front end till the "slimline" in 91/92.
That front I'd reckon owes more to the european versions which were around before then.

John never claimed the layout was original, always quoted the Vincent as inspiration for the "frameless" style.
That one very definitely has a separate frame.
Nicely done though.

I think the linkage ratios for and aft on the britten owe a little to Mike Watts and Mike/Murray? Aktin?akin? input.
Before they built the wisbone girder fork John obtained Hossacks (edit Claude Fior)Fax number from Alan Cathcart and sent him a fax asking for feedback/help/pointers he never did recieve a reply.

[husaberg]

It has already been done decades ago, Manu. For example the Armstrong-Rotax 250 and the Heron-Suzuki 500. And of course the Ducati MotoGP.
Ducati gave up on carbon because they found it too difficult to design in the necessary amount of lateral flex that their front tire required.
But I think there is a better solution now: https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131030204
so we may see carbon GP-frames return in the not too distant future.

Cagiva as well,


Ducati had a Ciba Geigi M board frame built in the 70's for the TTF3.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130363245
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130363685

Here is the armstrong

[husaberg]

(Sorry, Husaberg, another foreign language one...but it is a picture gallery)

http://www.classic-motorrad.de/galer..._display_media

The timeline is interesting - did he know about the Britten, or parallel development?

here is some in JAPANESE AND NORWEIGAN
Hejira
Hejira is arabic meaning fly like the wind

http://www.hejiraracing.co.uk/publications.html

[crbbt]

From what I've learnt at uni about compersite is that as soon as the force is not anglined with the direction of the fibre. It's relatively useless and has limited work cycles.

However there is a machine that lays single strands at a time. Not a cheap piece of equipment yet or quick

[husaberg]

From what I've learnt at uni about compersite is that as soon as the force is not anglined with the direction of the fibre. It's relatively useless and has limited work cycles.

However there is a machine that lays single strands at a time. Not a cheap piece of equipment yet or quick

John Britten invented the cats craddle carbon string method
Cheap as chips.
Make sure you use anodised alloy fittings
It works like this

You do a wet lay of the CF string over the inlay bobbin fittings then cover with Prepreg sheet. in the desired directions
the string is the bones the Fibre sheet is the Skin/exoskeleton
If you look at these two pictures you can see some of the string lines

Cycle World Archives
More than 20 years later, we're still enamored with John Britten's creation.
His “skin and bones” chassis fabrication was like nothing else seen previously. Placing aluminum spools at two wide lugs on each of the engine’s cylinder heads and around the steering head, he then wound carbon-fiber roving from spool to spool to produce the triangulated “bones.” Then he sheeted-in the spaces between the bones with carbon fabric. Wetted-out and cured, this made a compact and rigid whole. He credited the similar (steel) chassis of the Vincent Series-B as inspiration.

“I find that working with direc­tional materials has given me a real distrust of metal. Metals don’t seem solid to me anymore. I think of them as like very tightly packed sand.”
Wanting to avoid the frictional lock-up of telescopic forks during braking, he fabricated a carbon girder fork, which riders could easily accept because in its initial travel it felt just like teles (he knew a failing of many alternative bikes was that they spooked their riders by behaving oddly).
He and his group poured and machined their own engine castings, which are very smooth and of graceful organic shape, like tree trunks. He said nature had been an endless source of ideas.

[crbbt]

You have any information of that husa? Goggle took me to a very strange place

Should have waited for that 😂

[husaberg]

You have any information of that husa? Goggle took me to a very strange place

Should have waited for that 😂

Its also shown in the Britten video if you can find the full length version
He boasted he never even half used the full spool he was given by a boat builder

[jasonu]

From what I've learnt at uni about compersite is that as soon as the force is not anglined with the direction of the fibre. It's relatively useless and has limited work cycles.

However there is a machine that lays single strands at a time. Not a cheap piece of equipment yet or quick

Do they teach spelling at uni?



sorry, couldn't resist...