Race chassis

[husaberg]

Do they teach spelling at uni?



sorry, couldn't resist...

Trump is your elected president.
I could actually have resisted, But I didn't.

He could be the spokesman for KTM if this president thing fall through.

[crbbt]

Haha nah. All about autocorrect these days #geny

[Grumph]

From what I've learnt at uni about compersite is that as soon as the force is not anglined with the direction of the fibre. It's relatively useless and has limited work cycles.

However there is a machine that lays single strands at a time. Not a cheap piece of equipment yet or quick

Chris Haldane found out the hard way that John didn't understand directional fiber at first. The first version of the bottom wishbone broke when Chris was testing. John I believe blamed Chris for wheelying it....Chris won the NZ F1 title on his OW with a broken collarbone a few weeks later...

[husaberg]

Chris Haldane found out the hard way that John didn't understand directional fiber at first. The first version of the bottom wishbone broke when Chris was testing. John I believe blamed Chris for wheelying it....Chris won the NZ F1 title on his OW with a broken collarbone a few weeks later...

My previous post should have said Claude Fior rather than Hossack.
You could say that some of the development was "suck and see" i guess at times it sucks to be the test pilot.
In an article John gave 4 reasons for the Girder compared to his previous WP fork
First was to eliminate stiction 20KG on the WP. (insignificant on the girder only the bearings)
then eliminate fork flex which can lead to chatter (ironic considering)
The oportunity to use double wishbone geometry which allowed him to dial in both prodive and antidive in different parts of the suspension travel. (On the V1100 The first 80mm travel was prodive the last 40 was antidive.)
It was lighter and as it was at the extreme end of a motorbike so it also decreased the polar moment.

[Michael Moore]

When did Britten use a girder fork? I've only seen photos of a telefork and the Hossack/Fior-style FFE (funny front end).

[Grumph]

When did Britten use a girder fork? I've only seen photos of a telefork and the Hossack/Fior-style FFE (funny front end).

John described it as a girder - presumably to avoid the comparisons you and Husa have mentioned....Certainly each leg was a CF girder.

At a club night here there was a film shown of what went on at Daytona - incl an interview with John by the track announcer. There was quite a bit of muttering in the ranks from those who knew the people who had worked on the bike. The public face of the project was exclusively John. It was not until a local journo did an article for the HOG magazine about 3 years later that the number and names of those behind the scene became public.
Any credit for the source of the suspension layout came very much later and reluctantly. By that time most of the team wanted to ditch it anyway....

[husaberg]

John described it as a girder - presumably to avoid the comparisons you and Husa have mentioned....Certainly each leg was a CF girder.

At a club night here there was a film shown of what went on at Daytona - incl an interview with John by the track announcer. There was quite a bit of muttering in the ranks from those who knew the people who had worked on the bike. The public face of the project was exclusively John. It was not until a local journo did an article for the HOG magazine about 3 years later that the number and names of those behind the scene became public.
Any credit for the source of the suspension layout came very much later and reluctantly. By that time most of the team wanted to ditch it anyway....

Bob at link i feel was always sold rather short. along with Mike Brosnan and the many others. But Mike was especially when earlier versions were actually called the Brosnan Britten.
Link likely missed out of significant sales of electronics which were at the time world leading.
I guess its easier to sell the story if its david vs goliath rather than a team of daves.

[Michael Moore]

OK, just another example of sloppy terminology then. It annoys me, words have meanings, and a girder fork is quite a different thing from a Hossack/Fior FFE, even if they look somewhat similar from a distance in a dark room filled with fog.

cheers,
Michael

[Grumph]

OK, just another example of sloppy terminology then. It annoys me, words have meanings, and a girder fork is quite a different thing from a Hossack/Fior FFE, even if they look somewhat similar from a distance in a dark room filled with fog.

cheers,
Michael

Or side on with the "steering head" area obscured...From memory there was never a clear, naked, side on pic published till after John's death.
He was very sensitive about that.

[Michael Moore]

Being secretive about using someone else's good idea doesn't make much sense to me. If I can use an idea and credit the clever person who originated it, I'm still getting benefit of using the idea, and the clever person might be sufficiently pleased with getting the credit that they'll give me some more good ideas in the future.

Did Britten keep the bike covered up anytime it was not out on the track? If not, and random people could walk up and look, then where's the secret? Did the scrutineers have to sign NDAs? I suspect few people are fooled, they just wonder "why's he being so secretive about something so obvious?"

People can be so odd.

cheers,
Michael

[husaberg]

Being secretive about using someone else's good idea doesn't make much sense to me. If I can use an idea and credit the clever person who originated it, I'm still getting benefit of using the idea, and the clever person might be sufficiently pleased with getting the credit that they'll give me some more good ideas in the future.

Did Britten keep the bike covered up anytime it was not out on the track? If not, and random people could walk up and look, then where's the secret? Did the scrutineers have to sign NDAs? I suspect few people are fooled, they just wonder "why's he being so secretive about something so obvious?"

People can be so odd.

cheers,
Michael

John banned side on pics, reporter can be very accomidating when they want a story.

[Grumph]

Being secretive about using someone else's good idea doesn't make much sense to me. If I can use an idea and credit the clever person who originated it, I'm still getting benefit of using the idea, and the clever person might be sufficiently pleased with getting the credit that they'll give me some more good ideas in the future.

Did Britten keep the bike covered up anytime it was not out on the track? If not, and random people could walk up and look, then where's the secret? Did the scrutineers have to sign NDAs? I suspect few people are fooled, they just wonder "why's he being so secretive about something so obvious?"

People can be so odd.

cheers,
Michael

Due to the tight packaging in that area, it was very hard to see anything at all....I put that as the reason as when I first scrutineered that version at a NZGP meeting, I found that the steering damper was being used as the steering stops. It had been raced in that form at a number of NZ meetings before that one and it had never been picked up previously - or as has been suggested since, people didn't know what they were looking at...
The team manager at the IOM, told me privately when they got back that he'd heard the chief scrut say to his 2IC, "where the hell do we start on this"...

[Michael Moore]

I've added a page for Norman Hossack's bikes on my website:

http://www.eurospares.com/hossack.htm

Norman sent me some more photos he had and I decided there was enough material to consolidate it on one page. I've also included a couple of defunct webpages that Steve Burge, owner of Hossack #3, had made that I had saved for reference, though unfortunately I do not have all the photos to fully recreate those pages.

Some of the new photos are of the Hossack Ogier Laverda that was raced with some success by Alan Cathcart. I'd only found 2 or 3 photos of the bike in magazines so it was nice to get more information on it.

cheers,
Michael

[Frits Overmars]

Being secretive about using someone else's good idea doesn't make much sense to me. If I can use an idea and credit the clever person who originated it, I'm still getting benefit of using the idea, and the clever person might be sufficiently pleased with getting the credit that they'll give me some more good ideas in the future.

Did Britten keep the bike covered up anytime it was not out on the track? ... Did the scrutineers have to sign NDAs?

I can very well understand being secretive about using someone else's good idea. If the idea really is that good, you try to keep your competitors from finding out about it as long as you can. Having said that, I fully agree that credit should be given where credit is due.

Scrutineers don't sign NDAs. If you won't let them check your bike, you're not going to race, simple as that. But scrutineers have a general obligation to keep their mouth shut about anything they see. It doesn't always work that way in practice...

John banned side on pics, reporters can be very accoaidating when they want a story.

I know both sides of the medal. In the 1970s, when Yamaha first used an exhaust power valve on their 500 cc works bikes, I impersonated a technical editor for a living. All Yamaha team members had strict orders from Japan that no pictures of the bikes were to be taken. They draped blankets over the bikes at every pit stop, and anybody carrying a camera made them quite nervous.
When I entered the Yamaha works tent, the first thing I did was handing my cameras over to the chief mechanic, so he could have piece of mind.
The next evening he invited me to take pictures of the bikes, indicating which angles were allowed and which had to wait. I was the only one with these pictures for quite some time and I had a good relation that served me well until he was promoted back to Japan.

[Frits Overmars]

Being secretive about using someone else's good idea doesn't make much sense to me. If I can use an idea and credit the clever person who originated it, I'm still getting benefit of using the idea, and the clever person might be sufficiently pleased with getting the credit that they'll give me some more good ideas in the future.

Did Britten keep the bike covered up anytime it was not out on the track? ... Did the scrutineers have to sign NDAs?

I can very well understand being secretive about using someone else's good idea. If the idea really is that good, you try to keep your competitors from finding out about it as long as you can. Having said that, I fully agree that credit should be given where credit is due.

Scrutineers don't sign NDAs. If you won't let them check your bike, you're not going to race, simple as that. But scrutineers have a general obligation to keep their mouth shut about anything they see. It doesn't always work that way in practice...

John banned side on pics, reporters can be very accoaidating when they want a story.

I know both sides of the medal. In the 1970s, when Yamaha introduced an exhaust power valve on their 500 cc works bikes, I impersonated a technical editor for a living. All Yamaha team members had strict orders from Japan that no pictures of the bikes were to be taken. They draped blankets over the bikes at every pit stop, and anybody carrying a camera made them quite nervous.
When I entered the Yamaha works tent, the first thing I did was hand my cameras over to the chief mechanic, so he could have piece of mind and I could have a chat.
The next evening he came and invited me to take pictures of the bikes, indicating which view angles were allowed and which had to wait. I was the only one with these pictures for quite some time and we had a good relation that served me well until he was promoted back to Japan.