Mini-motard for bucket racing?

[Drew]

ok try this on for welks. and no I don't know what a welk is, sort of like some sort of sea crustation but not quite.


ok so if a manufacturer was to manufacture a copy of an FXR150 but fitted some fruity racing bits & sold it as a competition bike, well it is illegal. It was derived from an FXR. But clearly sold as a competition model.

If its a direct copy of a FXR & sold as a playbike or roadbike then that would be legal. This is how I see the Longchin, but I try not to get too close to one. Fortunately Fishe makes that part easy.

How close to either of these examples is the bike in question? Heck I dunno, but therein lies the rub. If it was sold & expected to survive forever then you'd lean to playbike. But you could offer a full house 13,000rpm monster plonked on the humble cases. Derived from? well. . .
That's why the rules don't allow competition engines, it tidies things up in the only sensible manner.

Indeed the Japs often made race kits for their humble road 100s & 50s for racing (usually in asian markets). Of course the Airforce boys had access to this sort of stuff on their postings in the 80s & the rules were made to dissuade people using these parts.

I understand your point. I really do.

And all I'm saying by way of retort, is that there is no class for the motor to have been built to race in. Ergo, it is not a competition motor. Just a tickled up Honda step through, assembled with off the shelf bits, which happen to increase it's power output.

I'll stop winding everyone up for the sake of it now. I have had fun. Ta.

[F5 Dave]

Great, case closed. Nothing to see here, move along.

[Shorty_925]

Anyone keen? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=442727968

[speedpro]

Indeed the Japs often made race kits for their humble road 100s & 50s for racing (usually in asian markets). Of course the Airforce boys had access to this sort of stuff on their postings in the 80s & the rules were made to dissuade people using these parts.

Indeed they did. In fact the Suzuki A100 race kit cylinders with a bridged exhaust port were available from Colemans in Wanganui, $15ea in '83-84 if I remember. We bought all 5 that they had. An Army buddy used one. We all knew but weren't making a big deal about it. The same Army buddy and I bought a full race kitted A100 for something like $50. I got the wheels for my AC50.

[Henk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bike

[goivy26]

And then?

[goivy26]

This is my engine http://www.lifan.com/English/Industr...4-f0e8458a30ee

One day I may get a FXR or I may remove my niples using a belt sander .

Ps I think you guys are alright .

Ivan

[goivy26]

I copied it so all could see

A pit bike is a small off-road/on-road motorcycle originally used for riding around the pits or staging area of a motocross race. Since the early 2000s pit bike racing, a sport similar to motocross, has become popular in the United States, especially in Southern California. The term has also been applied to the use of bicycles in similar venues. (WIKAPEDIA).

The name pit bike originated from the use of a Honda Z50 to ride around the pit areas of dirt bike races and race events across the United States. The fairly cheap price and the mobility of these bikes made them easy to use at racing events. Popular dirt bike movies like the 2001 Crusty Demons of Dirt 3 show how these small motorcycles can be used to do things other than just riding back and forth in the pits. A part of this movie shows people taking huge bicycle jumps on a Z50 in someone’s back yard.[1] This movie and movies like it made people realize what these little bikes were capable of. It did not take long for the pit bike trend to catch on.

In 2002 Kawasaki came out with the KLX110. This bike, as with Honda’s XR50, was designed for smaller riders. The 110 is faster and larger than an XR50, so it needs fewer modifications to make it comfortable for bigger riders. Pit bike riders realized this and started moving to the KLX110.

I am still going to build the 150/RM85 Motard !!!!!!! because I am special!!!

Ivan

[Henk]

What I was getting at was that pit bikes in their various guises started out as modified xr50s but ended up as purpose built bikes for pit bike racing. A bit like full size motards started out as modified dirt bikes and are now purpose built race bikes.
The pittster pro, Forza and their ilk were designed for pit bike racing, not as a kids trail bike, hence all the discussion.
My initial objection was and is that these are being marketed as legal when at best they fall into a grey area, are you likely to get protested on the grounds of legality, probably not, but when for the same price or less you can get a bike that does fall completely within the rules I don't see the point.
Turn up at the NI rounds, I'm sure you'll get a ride, worst case I Can see is that you'll be excluded from the points, you'll still have a an awesome weekend away getting a feel for new tracks.
I'll be at Toke Nd the only thing I'll be able to ride there is a flag point. Dibs on turn 2

[Yow Ling]

I guess this is the kinda stuff we trying to keep out

http://www.ooracing.com/store/index....wCat&catId=131

[Buckets4Me]

I understand your point. I really do.

And all I'm saying by way of retort, is that there is no class for the motor to have been built to race in.
I'll stop winding everyone up for the sake of it now. I have had fun. Ta.

haha and there is a class they race in

so now the pit bikes have gone from being so so to all out illegal so much for your wind up

Motocross

Motocross is the most common discipline of pit bikes. Before someone begins racing their pit bike, they need to upgrade their suspension from stock. With jumps putting you 10+ feet in the air, motocross has a very high chance of injury. Knobby tires are a must for any dirt racing.
[edit] Supermoto

Supermoto is slowly being taken over by pocket bikes. that generally have speeds up to 60 miles per hour. Slick tires are an absolute must for any avid supermoto racer. Being the fastest paced discipline with speeds up to 60 miles per hour, Supermoto generally has the most serious injuries.
[edit] Pit Park

Pit park is perhaps the newest discipline for pit bikes. Pit park originally started with people taking a pit bike to skateparks and riding around like BMXers. Most skateparks do not allow pit bikes because the torque can tear up the wood. Metal and concrete parks are the best for pit park. Slick tires are preferred but knobby tires can still be used. The dangers are similar to the injuries of BMX.
[edit] Street

Street riding involves being able to maneuver any obstacle that is thrown at you. In certain countries pit street is illegal on sidewalks. Most police will take pit bikes more seriously than a skateboarder skating an illegal area, because it is motorized. Obstacles can include stairs, ledges, curbs, walls, and anything else not meant to be ridden on with bikes. Pegs are a huge plus for bunny hops and grinding. It can be very dangerous, as pit bikes are more energetic than a human powered BMX bicycle.
[edit]

[TZ350]

Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. ok ok but the RM is still out


CHAPTER 24

24 ROAD RACING - MINIATURE

24-1 The Miniature Road Racing class or `Bucket Racing’ as it is also known, shall be deemed
to include solo motorcycles and sidecars.

24-2 Motorcycles Technical:

24-2-1 Solo motorcycles shall have two engine capacity classes:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc
4 stroke 0-100cc air cooled

24-2-2 Sidecars shall have one engine capacity class:
2 stroke 55-100cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled
4 stroke 55-150cc

24-2-3 The maximum capacity for rebored engines shall be:
F4 2 stroke 55-100cc - 104cc
2 stroke 55-125cc air cooled - 130.5cc
4 stroke 55-150cc – 158.09cc
F5 2 stroke 0-50cc - 53cc
4 stroke 0-100cc - 104cc

24-2-4 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing,
Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be no
restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve
springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally
aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may be turbo or
supercharged.
F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a
single 20mm carburettor.

24-2-5 Fuel: See 10-17-1
Alcohol based fuel or fuel additives are prohibited.

24-2-6 Construction of Solo Motorcycles:
Miniature road racers are to be constructed in accordance with, and comply with, Chapter
10.

I see it says non compitition ....

""24-2-4 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles.""

I see Drew has cleared up for us where Pit Bikes and the like sit regarding the rules as they are.

Pity as I liked the idea of crate engines being available for constructing specials.

[Drew]

Ok then, I'll concede they do have a class to compete in properly.

I wont bother arguing the word "derived" either.

Have fun.

[Drew]

Quick question, (not a wind up).

From everything that's been said here, what is being classed as competition parts, is basically something being commercially available to turn your bike into a racer. Is that right?

Does anyone have a plan on policing which motors were made with legal bits, and which were made with identical bits that are competition items?

[Yow Ling]

Quick question, (not a wind up).

From everything that's been said here, what is being classed as competition parts, is basically something being commercially available to turn your bike into a racer. Is that right?

Does anyone have a plan on policing which motors were made with legal bits, and which were made with identical bits that are competition items?

I think you must think that bucket guys are constantly checking who is legal and who isnt, reality is nobody checks , if somebody builds a bike that is so fast people will discuss it, apply a character test ( is he a vagina), go on KB and discuss it further and then still probably do nothing. What is to be gained by cheating in buckets?

The identical parts question, for example TF125 rods are the same part number as RM125 rods, no big deal, however a TM125 cylinder looks like a TF or TS cylinder but is cheating, you can put TM porting in a TF or ts cylinder and thats ok, see the rules are really clear hehe