New Zealand Superbikes and Grand Prix

[jellywrestler]

One of the most amazing rides ever, but it shouldn't have happened. If the steward had a copy of the rules on hand he could have looked them up quickly, and sent Stroud back to his pit.

They did Drew, there were about five people all having a look over it at the time with Stroudy the other bikes were on their warm up lap and they could've spent half an hour discussing it the way it was going backwards and forwards, they weren't even sure on how many laps he'd done till I went into the timing tower, and then it was only my word as there wasn't time to print it out etc.
I hate moments like these but at the time it seemed fairer to let him out there and get on with the race for EVERYBODIES sake and then sort it out afterwards, and that's the same I said to Moir and crew when they were in doubt too.
So hows about putting your suggested wording up here so it can be considered to remove all doubt next time

[Crasherfromwayback]

. Should Stroud get points for a race he shouldn't have been in, my mate loses out.

To me it's not even that. He simply should not have been out there according to their own fucking rules, yet they're incompetent enough to allow it to happen. He's not scored points (as he shouldn't), so your mate is not out of luck there regarding that side of things. But what if Stroud carved your mate up on the way through on his 'amazing lap' and made ya mate run off into the dirt?

Again...he shouldn't have been on the track. MNZ are a joke, and the whole time I've been around always have been.

[snapoff]

They did Drew, there were about five people all having a look over it at the time with Stroudy the other bikes were on their warm up lap and they could've spent half an hour discussing it the way it was going backwards and forwards, they weren't even sure on how many laps he'd done till I went into the timing tower, and then it was only my word as there wasn't time to print it out etc.
I hate moments like these but at the time it seemed fairer to let him out there and get on with the race for EVERYBODIES sake and then sort it out afterwards, and that's the same I said to Moir and crew when they were in doubt too.
So hows about putting your suggested wording up here so it can be considered to remove all doubt next time

why was the comentater telling the officials the rules , all abit odd to me ,the five people tyring to read the one rulebook must be slow readers cos thay should of black flaged him ,thay had 10laps (15min) of race plus the time it took to clean up after the red flag to sort it .MNZ is just SHIT!!!!!!!

[jellywrestler]

why was the comentater telling the officials the rules , all abit odd to me

No way was I telling them the rules, I merely confirmed the lap numbers via the official timing and made a five minute call for superbikes for the restart.

[Mental Trousers]

As people seem to be arguing over whether or not he should've been there it's clear at the time the right decision was made. If, after the fact, it isn't clear to a bunch of piss heads (I'm not the only one half pissed on a Monday night right guys??) what the facts were then not allowing a competitor out would've been the wrong decision.

It's simply not possible to get it right everytime. So the officials have to err on the side of caution, which means let the rider get on the grid.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It's simply not possible to get it right everytime. So the officials have to err on the side of caution, which means let the rider get on the grid.

I'm actually not pissed. And no...the 'officials' should be able to understand a simple (well it should be simple) rule and uphold it. You must be pissed if you can't understand/agree with that.

[Mental Trousers]

I'm actually not pissed. And no...the 'officials' should be able to understand a simple (well it should be simple) rule and uphold it. You must be pissed if you can't understand/agree with that.

The rule is relatively clear, but it's the facts at the time that weren't clear. You can't apply a rule if you're not sure of what you're applying it to.

I'm only half pissed by the way. It's a Monday night after all.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The rule is relatively clear, but it's the facts at the time that weren't clear. You can't apply a rule if you're not sure of what you're applying it to.

I'm only half pissed by the way. It's a Monday night after all.

Where the facts that hard to gather/understand? If so...why?

Pour yourself another!

[Billy]

As people seem to be arguing over whether or not he should've been there it's clear at the time the right decision was made. If, after the fact, it isn't clear to a bunch of piss heads (I'm not the only one half pissed on a Monday night right guys??) what the facts were then not allowing a competitor out would've been the wrong decision.

It's simply not possible to get it right everytime. So the officials have to err on the side of caution, which means let the rider get on the grid.

Aww,C'mon now Shane,These experts are never gonna be wrong ROFLMAO !!!!

Its peice of piss to run the sport professionally when its all done by volunteers who donate their time and in many cases it costs them money as well.

The guys who run the National points rounds are local club officials and volunteers,Who get one shot at it every year and while I'm the first to admit its less than perfect,Most people do the best they can with the people and rescources they have to work with and all on top of their day jobs,A huge percentage of those people dont hang around for long enough to get any real experience to help improve the running of these events because they get pissed off with being put down by the likes of the experts we see on this site,You know the ones,Theyre always the last ones too help out,But the first ones with their hands out.

A classic example is Bob Cooke whos well into his twilight years and should be at home with his family or playing bowls or golf or whatever he feels like doing,But no after many years repaying the sport hes enjoyed when he was younger,But no,Hes spent the last 6 months rewriting the rulebook these experts are picking to bits,Not to mention the hundreds of hours put in by Peter Ramage,Brian Bernard,Maarty Van Booma,Neil Smith,Ian Dawson,Grant Ramage,Rob Lewis and myself on the commission and Kev Goddard and Paul Stewart from the board into formulating and trying to rework the rules to keep everybody happy.Piece of piss,Any clown could do better than the current idiots.

So step right up you armchair experts,Its your turn to put something back in now,Contact the office at your earliest convenience and Im sure they'll find you something really easy to do for truckloads of dollars....Or not!!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Aww,C'mon now Shane,These experts are never gonna be wrong ROFLMAO !!!!

Its peice of piss to run the sport professionally when its all done by volunteers who donate their time and in many cases it costs them money as well.

,A huge percentage of those people dont hang around for long enough to get any real experience to help improve the running of these events because they get pissed off with being put down by the likes of the experts we see on this site,You know the ones,Theyre always the last ones too help out,But the first ones with their hands out.

So step right up you armchair experts,Its your turn to put something back in now,Contact the office at your earliest convenience and Im sure they'll find you something really easy to do for truckloads of dollars....Or not!!!

Billy...you're a genuine GC. But you needn't get so worked up about people pointing out serious issues with the way MNZ do certain things.

They're not personal attacks, yet you're taking it like they are.

There is some SERIOUS money spent by certain teams at the superbike level. It's not on that it gets handled in an amateurish way in my opinion. To say it wasn't handled that way...is doing yourself a disservice. As Tana Umaga said a few years ago..."It's not tiddly winks"

The top teams are doing their very best to be professional...time for MNZ to match the effort.

[Mental Trousers]

Where the facts that hard to gather/understand? If so...why?

Pour yourself another!

Read the first half of the thread mate. Seems that at the time it wasn't clear how many laps the race leader had done and what percentage that equated to. One of the Commissioners has stated quite clearly that he queried what constitutes 65%.

The key part is at the time. Sitting here knocking back some cold ones it's a bit clearer but standing in pit lane with the rule book in hand there's no way they would've been 100% clear.

Clear as mud. Have a couple of Bourbans and you'll start talking sense too mate

[Crasherfromwayback]

Read the first half of the thread mate. Seems that at the time it wasn't clear how many laps the race leader had done and what percentage that equated to. One of the Commissioners has stated quite clearly that he queried what constitutes 65%.

The key part is at the time. Sitting here knocking back some cold ones it's a bit clearer but standing in pit lane with the rule book in hand there's no way they would've been 100% clear.

Clear as mud. Have a couple of Bourbans and you'll start talking sense too mate

You're kidding me right? In this day and age...with transponders...you're telling me they didn't know how many laps the leader did? VS how many laps a bike lying in the dirt did?

Just so you know...it obviously matters not a single stroke of my knob who does what and what happens regarding the mess that went down.

But if I was a team owner/racer in the class...I'd be pretty fucking pissed off with the way things were handled. For people to say "They're only volunteers" etc also sucks. If a volunteer fireman made a mistake and sprayed you in the face with something that made the burning worse...would it be ok? Doubt it very much.

We're not talking about flag marshals and corner workers etc...We're talking about the hierarchy of MNZ, not knowing what the rules clearly state, and then not having the information available to them to make the correct ruling, which in turn could adversely affect other competitors that pay them fucking good money to compete.

Sugar coat it anyway you like. But it sucks as much arse as Viscount Montgomery does in his spare time.

[ellipsis]

As people seem to be arguing over whether or not he should've been there it's clear at the time the right decision was made. If, after the fact, it isn't clear to a bunch of piss heads (I'm not the only one half pissed on a Monday night right guys??) what the facts were then not allowing a competitor out would've been the wrong decision.

It's simply not possible to get it right everytime. So the officials have to err on the side of caution, which means let the rider get on the grid.

...this and your other post back a bit hit it on the nail...the calculations of what portion of the race he had completed before his off didn't matter a fuck up until the race was red flagged, then it became the most important and contentious issue of Rnd 1...this did not escape the notice of the Steward, the COC, the Race Secretary the Timer and the Race Secretary or any one else down in control...the time to verify just where Andrew lost it , radios>>>flaggies>>>radios>>>COC, calculations, doubt, calculations, more doubt, erroneous information>>>discarded, more calculations, re-check the rule book to dispel the doubts....and all the while this is happening vis a vis Andrew Stroud, the COC was being harangued by another rider regards his inability to restart and the Steward being assailed by other team managers and crew with their contentions...the decision to let Stroudy back out was based on all the relevant and factual information that the Steward and the COC had at the time of their decision....this is all that a Steward of the meeting can operate from...a systems failure maybe?...an MNZ fiasco?...but definitely not a failure by the crew in control....

[Mental Trousers]

.....

Mate, the Commentator went and told the officials how many laps were done. They weren't sure.

From what Billy has said it's a safe bet that they also weren't sure what constituted 65%.

The Officials do a great job considering they're not paid. They don't always get it right but what do you expect when you don't have paid professionals with lots of experience to run things. Given the information they had at the time they made the right decision.

[gav]

...this and your other post back a bit hit it on the nail...the calculations of what portion of the race he had completed before his off didn't matter a fuck up until the race was red flagged, then it became the most important and contentious issue of Rnd 1...this did not escape the notice of the Steward, the COC, the Race Secretary the Timer and the Race Secretary or any one else down in control...the time to verify just where Andrew lost it , radios>>>flaggies>>>radios>>>COC, calculations, doubt, calculations, more doubt, erroneous information>>>discarded, more calculations, re-check the rule book to dispel the doubts....and all the while this is happening vis a vis Andrew Stroud, the COC was being harangued by another rider regards his inability to restart and the Steward being assailed by other team managers and crew with their contentions...the decision to let Stroudy back out was based on all the relevant and factual information that the Steward and the COC had at the time of their decision....this is all that a Steward of the meeting can operate from...a systems failure maybe?...an MNZ fiasco?...but definitely not a failure by the crew in control....

So there was confusion whether Stroud had completed 65% of 5 laps rather than the 65% of the original planned 15 laps?? If the wording is so clear cut, why was there any confusion?

As far as transponders go, the guys on pit row don't have that information in front of them either.