Some days I hate programming

[mashman]

I can't pull the site, as they are hosting it with a host they chose, it's out of my control.
I'd love to pull it but I'd have to hack a server hahaha

Do you own the IP and copyright?

[jrandom]

Do you own the IP and copyright?

Undoubtedly she does, because the client wouldn't have a clue that such things might've been involved. They just wanted a website.

They probably also had no idea how much it would cost until the invoices started to flow.

I'm sure thecharmed01 sits at home with her shoe collection and congratulates herself on her commercial perspicacity.

[mashman]

Undoubtedly she does, because the client wouldn't have a clue that such things might've been involved. They just wanted a website.

They probably also had no idea how much it would cost until the invoices started to flow.

I'm sure thecharmed01 sits at home with her shoe collection and congratulates herself on her commercial perspicacity.

What, the client didn't know they'd have to pay?

I'm surprised they're still in business if that's the case.

The shoe collection things just gettin me hot... and the big word almost brought on the scooby doo face.

[jrandom]

What, the client didn't know they'd have to pay?

It's surprising (or perhaps not) how your average person has no idea of what's involved in software development.

And it's taken me a solid decade in the industry to develop a reasonably accurate ability to estimate time and cost.

I will fall over in shock if thecharmed01 can assert with a straight face that she gave those clients a quote for the job before starting that was within an order of magnitude of the amount of money she's trying to get out of them now.

The shoe collection things just gettin me hot...

Me too.

the big word almost brought on the scooby doo face.

Running around, robbing banks...

[thecharmed01]

It's surprising (or perhaps not) how your average person has no idea of what's involved in software development.

And it's taken me a solid decade in the industry to develop a reasonably accurate ability to estimate time and cost.

I will fall over in shock if thecharmed01 can assert with a straight face that she gave those clients a quote for the job before starting that was within an order of magnitude of the amount of money she's trying to get out of them now..

Not sure what you are implying, but the original site build was paid for in full.

The money owing is actually pretty minimal. About $500 and it's for rescuing the site when they crashed it.
I didn't quote them for the repair work to get them back online. I told them my hourly rate and they authorised me to do what was necessary to get the site back online.

[mashman]

It's surprising (or perhaps not) how your average person has no idea of what's involved in software development.

And it's taken me a solid decade in the industry to develop a reasonably accurate ability to estimate time and cost.

I will fall over in shock if thecharmed01 can assert with a straight face that she gave those clients a quote for the job before starting that was within an order of magnitude of the amount of money she's trying to get out of them now.

Kinda took me by surprise too... especially when the CEO sits you down and asks you what you do under the guise of, "well you're only putting a box on a web page.".

heh, I took the easy route and asked someone. The answer: X for a web page, X for an interactive web page and X for a "content managed" web page... pretty much bang on too when evened out over a project.

Praps the original quote was spot on and the customer indulged in a little scope creep, I know that happens from time to time too.

[thecharmed01]

Do you own the IP and copyright?

Of course not. That's the property of the client.
I'm only a contractor. None of that's my business.

[jrandom]

Not sure what you are implying, but the original site build was paid for in full.

They can't be such terrible customers then. And I retract my inference that you raped them on the initial development.



Ever read The Mythical Man-Month?

The money owing is actually pretty minimal. About $500 and it's for rescuing the site when they crashed it... I told them my hourly rate and they authorised me to do what was necessary to get the site back online.

How long's the bill been dangling now?

[mashman]

Of course not. That's the property of the client.
I'm only a contractor. None of that's my business.

bloody contractors

[thecharmed01]

They can't be such terrible customers then. And I retract my inference that you raped them on the initial development.



Ever read The Mythical Man-Month?



How long's the bill been dangling now?

It was due in December.
There have been many emails though, they have been trying desperately to get out of paying it, by saying that because they can't understand how it happened, they shouldn't have to pay for it *rolls eyes*

Initially they weren't that bad, they followed the terms of our agreement and things were fine.
It's only this invoice they are digging the heels in over and while I can see it from their perspective, I also know that if I tried to pull that shit with a contractor, they'd feel exactly as I do.

I did put it to them that it's like having a short suddenly appear in your house wiring after you have been doing minor home improvements. You find out it's there because something goes wrong, and it was fine before.
So you call an electrician and tell them to "just fix it"
He does and bills you.
Do you then complain that "you didn't know how you had done that, therefore you refuse to pay his bill" and expect that this excuse will fly?

[jrandom]

Of course not. That's the property of the client.
I'm only a contractor.

You are a credit to your profession and I salute you. It's a pleasure to have had this line of questioning turn out thus.

I made a whole pile of pocket money in my spare time over a several month period some years back, basically re-implementing a bunch of shit for a smallish company that wound up over a barrel because they contracted for a bespoke mini-MIS database thrown together with VB and InterBase (back in the Borland days) and didn't realise that the contractor had retained the IP.

Of course the relationship with their developer subsequently broke down irretrievably.

Poor bastards.

They couldn't get hold of the source code. All they could do was limp along with the release they had while I twiddled around the fringes writing standalone reports and whatnot.

They remained dependent on me over subsequent years for occasional tweaks. I never had the heart to decline the work, even though I'd only done it in the first place because my dad was the manager (he moved on not long after I got involved).

[thecharmed01]

I have no issue with them having the source code. They have it all on their server, not that they know what to do with it.

I also have no issue with them having the site really.

I'm just frustrated with the way they've gone since the crash, they have essentially stopped me completing my work which is annoying. My OCD hates unfinished stuff.
I also hate having bills outstanding.

If they would just pay it, then I'd send them through the final documentation and root passwords, then it's up to them what they do with it.
It'd be out of my hair.

[wharekura]

Maybe some sort of support agreement may have helped this entire situation.
Also, it seems the minor amount of $500 with your experience in business of 15 years that this particular case should be written off - say to them as a one-off goodwill gesture will do this for now, but anything further incurs support fees.
All this tit-for-tat and holding of keys seems a little ish even though I understand its not your fault.
Let it go. Move on.

[thecharmed01]

I might have if they had gone about things differently.
But they took the route where they blamed me for it, and that's where I pretty much drew the line.
I refuse to take the blame for something I had nothing to do with, and to let it go would be to accept that the fault was mine - which it wasn't. My work is solid.

[wharekura]

hiya - when i mean letting go, I did not mean part of that letting go was taking the blame - in your case. Without letting go, the bitterness disrupts your creativeness and life in general (recall Master Yoda's words) I dont believe in the stars but Cancerians find it hard to let go. Before I use to be the most angry person for hating everything in life because of this and that Blaming society and everything around me - your typical streetkid. Some years ago someone showed me how to "let go" and have become a better tax payer citizen for it.

Now, I've been in the programming profession for many years, a nice humble home, a wonderful wife, enough kids to erase any spare time and recently a gv250