NZ arrests in US-led copyright operation

**SMOKEU** · 22nd January 2012, 15:19

Originally Posted by BoristheBiter

Then you had better fuck off somewhere else before the man catches up with you then.

Then you better give me some money so I can afford to do it.

**SPman** · 22nd January 2012, 16:07

Originally Posted by BoristheBiter

Sorry then, i'm could have sworn there was a thread where you said you were on it.
O well carry on.

I have been on it at various times .........no big deal - except to a person who has no idea of the curveballs life can throw someone and who's self inflated egotistical arrogance deems them to consider themselves in some way superior in life, to mere mortals!

There can be times in your life when you have to use the options available to survive.

Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is. - Benjamin Franklin.
and I'm not ashamed - on the contrary, it's given me a better insight into how a large percentage of the population live and survive, without being oh so quick to judge and condemn!

I will now carry on...and on....and on.........

**mashman** · 22nd January 2012, 16:57

Website founder bought his way into NZ ... "Warwick Tuck, head of immigration, told NZ Newswire that Dotcom was granted residence in 2010 under the investor plus category."

**BoristheBiter** · 23rd January 2012, 06:30

Originally Posted by davereid

I dont think you can be sure he broke a US law in the US. I can't find anything to suggest he has even been to the US.

You could argue that he broke a US law in New Zealand, but the US has jurisdiction as the server was in the US.

But if that was the case, my comments about Mr Bainamarama would also be enforceable by the Fijians if the server was based in Fiji. And for all I know it is.

Indeed its completely impossible to be sure where any bit of internet traffic is routed, stored or saved, as its dynamic. One packet may go via the US while another goes via germany.

Megaupload had servers all over the world. You could not even be sure that any particular file you sent or received was in any particular country.

Does that mean you have to know where the server is when you do something online ? To do a trace-route to make sure your traffic is not going via a Chinese server if you are being critical of communisim ?

If you were to kill someone in New Zealand, and flee to the US, its entirely different, as you had commited a crime IN New Zealand against NZ laws. So NZ jurisdiction applies.

The age of consent in New Zealand is 16. Its 18 in the United States. So should the US be able to arrange for NZ police to arrest New Zealanders who have sex at 16 ?

Should US police be able to arrest New Zealanders who have sex with 16 year old americans who are in New Zealand on Hoiliday ?

Should the US police be able to arrest americans who have sex with other americans at age 16 in NZ ?

Should Muslims be able to stone women who offend islamic law in New Zealand ?

As for mr .com i guess we will see as he goes up for a deportation hearing today.
So I guess the media got it wrong about the FBI arresting him, no surprise there.

As for the rest well really i couldn't careless. if you choose to break the law in any country that you happen to be in or post on then be prepared for the popo to come and ask you some questions.
It used to be easier but with the invent of the internet things have become very muddy.
You can now go though so many different servers in multiple country's to hide in cyberspace so you don't get caught, to me that says something right there.

I guess most country's really don't care about who posts what because they know it is such a long process.

**BoristheBiter** · 23rd January 2012, 06:31

Originally Posted by SMOKEU

Then you better give me some money so I can afford to do it.

I will give you what you deserve

**BoristheBiter** · 23rd January 2012, 06:46

Originally Posted by SPman

I have been on it at various times .........no big deal - except to a person who has no idea of the curveballs life can throw someone and who's self inflated egotistical arrogance deems them to consider themselves in some way superior in life, to mere mortals!

There can be times in your life when you have to use the options available to survive.

Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is. - Benjamin Franklin.
and I'm not ashamed - on the contrary, it's given me a better insight into how a large percentage of the population live and survive, without being oh so quick to judge and condemn!

I will now carry on...and on....and on.........

Oh boo the fuck hoo.
So now who's self inflated egotistical arrogance is coming though just because they were poor.

**SS90** · 23rd January 2012, 07:11

I am surprised at the level of ignorance in regards to actually what is happening here.

These guys are in court trying to stop "extradition" to the states, where they have been indicted for a series of charges, ranging from copyright infringement to conspiracy to money launder.

They are not, nor will ever be in a NZ court representing charges of the bugger all. (although, there sounds like there are some claims of firearms charges, but let's wait and see on that one.)

The Yanks would have to provide massive amounts of credible evidence to the NZ government before they would even consider this (they seem to have done this), and, as NZ is indeed a democracy, these guys are given "due process" to refute the allegations, before a Judge grants (or not) an extradition order, so that they can represent there case in front of a Yank Judge, where the charges are laid.

I suspect no matter what the outcome of the copyright infringement charges, there is a real chance the money laundering allegations (if proven) will bite them all in their (ample) asses.

Proceeds of crime, or not, you never steal from the Tax Man..... I recon you would serve less time on piracy charges than tax evasion.

If you killed someone in NZ, then fled to the States would they send you back? Yes, if the NZ Government filed an extradition order (with accompanying required paperwork and evidence), absolutely, NZ and the USA have reciprocal agreements in relation to such matters (as does most of the world)

It would be the same as if a Kiwi took off to Aussie after committing a crime here... He would be sent back also.

Same if he was back home in Deutschland....... Although they have mind numbing procedures here that can drag almost anything out as long as you want, he may well have been better off if the application was made with the Bundespolitzi, as a good Lawyer would be able to fight the extradition order, because he is on native soil, and you have more rights at home that anywhere else (most of the time)

I can't help shake the feeling that he was granted permission to stay here simply so that the powers that be know where he was and where able to watch his operations to assist in building a case against him.

The raided, the exact same day that his mates (accomplices) where here ( for lard asses birthday), and, at the same time, they had over 100 million in cash, "laying about the gaff"

Pfffffft.

What a co-incidence.

I my opinion, it's more a case of "give a man a rope" than anything else.

Also, it gives a clear signal that criminal can't hide out in NZ with out fear of being caught.

International terrorists might think twice before applying for refugee status after these latest developments.

Anyway, he's a fat Fuck, he deserves worse.

Fucking German Eric Cartman in my books.

**avgas** · 23rd January 2012, 07:25

Originally Posted by SMOKEU

If the NZ government is willing to act in such a way that they are prepared to hand someone over to the American authorities for copyright infringement while the "offender" was committing the "crime" on NZ soil, then where does that leave the rest of us? The NZ government is clearly corrupt for even considering such a thing, and I can guarantee that this is the start of much worse things to come.

I sadly agree with you. There are too many "Why now?" questions out there.

Not saying Kim Dotcom is a nice chap. But what he is being arrested for he did YEARS ago. Since then he has been in plain sight. So why arrest him NOW?

Perhaps NZ is seen as another "Yes Sir! Not a problem Mr USA" nation?

**pzkpfw** · 23rd January 2012, 07:34

The stuff article (yesterday) said something like 20 warrants were executed in 9 countries. It is an international thing.

I wonder if those gnashing their teeth over this, would think the same if those "servers without borders" were, rather than hosting "free" movies, music and software; were instead hosting child porn?

(Actually, given the "defence" of these folk is usually that "we only provide hosting, we don't control what people put on our servers or do with that content", I wouldn't put boundaries on what might have been found there. Though that's just speculation on my part, I have no idea what was and wasn't hosted on (or via) their servers.)

**willytheekid** · 23rd January 2012, 09:29

Originally Posted by SS90

I am surprised at the level of ignorance in regards to actually what is happening here.

..............

Well said sir!

One of the most educated and thought out posts in this entire thread!...I hope you all read this carefully.

ps. In regards to piracy...Piracy of content and information has existed for hundreds of years in some form or another...it is only the REASONS for doing so that have not changed (reasearch WHY people pirate and the history of Piracy...very interesting indeed, and may cause some of you to rethink your moral stand towards piracy)

**SPman** · 23rd January 2012, 13:38

Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the site and it's operators, this gives a good precis of the case

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/explainer-how-can-the-us-seize-a-hong-kong-site-like-megaupload.ars

http://entropy.ifm.net.nz/2012/01/mp...for-trees.html

**Tigadee** · 23rd January 2012, 15:02

Originally Posted by jazfender

Here's a novel idea; maybe artists don't need to be paid as much as they are for what they're doing? Maybe singer/songwriters need to be taken down a peg from "Rockstar/Popstar" level and come back to the people? And maybe music executives could fuck off and leech off someone else's art?

Agreed but how do you impact the egomaniac hip-hop and pop stars, and not hurt real artists? How do you knock out the greedy corporate middlemen and not hurt the content creators?

**SPman** · 23rd January 2012, 16:46

The majority of artists make their money from live performances - and people don't go to live performances, generally, if they have no idea of who the artist is. It could be said that many artists would be even worse off, if they didn't have the exposure, that downloads give them. Many actively promote free downloads to get their music out there, and, additionally promote their work.. It's also been found that many older artists have had a resurgence in their careers, through younger people re discovering them and their work, after record companies refuse to re-release their albums.

Back to the case in hand ....

Originally Posted by The Jackal

“There are significant issues of due process,” attorney Ira Rothken said. “The government has taken down one of the world’s largest storage providers and have done so without giving Megaupload an opportunity to be heard in court.”

Rothken dismissed the government’s attempt to file criminal charges against his clients. “Many of the allegations made are similar to those in the copyright case filed against YouTube and that was a civil case….and YouTube won.”

What is most alarming about the scope of the raids is they appear to be undertaken under the clear instruction of the FBI.

The news reports quickly changed their story to say that the FBI had "requested" the raids... probably after a quick call from Washington DC... but since when was the FBI the international enforcer of the entertainment industry?

**Indiana_Jones** · 23rd January 2012, 19:23

Originally Posted by mashman

Website founder bought his way into NZ ... "Warwick Tuck, head of immigration, told NZ Newswire that Dotcom was granted residence in 2010 under the investor plus category."

This isn't exactly new lol.....

-Indy