TURTLEWAX F21 Wheel Cleaner - Why not use?

[scumdog]

Giving the T-Sport a dung-out and while cleaning the wheels I noticed the build-up of brake dust on the (A result of Takaka Hill probably - yes, I haven't cleaned it for a 6 weeks).

I have some of that spray-on TURTLEWAX F21 wheel-cleaner that works quite well on the mag-type wheels on some of my other vehicles.

Only on the spray bottle of F21 it has in tiny letters 'Do not use on motorcycle wheels'.

So any of you more experienced motor-bike grooming types know why this is so?

It does not appear to leave a coating on the tyres of the vehicles I use it on and does not seem to affect their brakes.

I await a flurry of 'advice' in the usual 80-20 ratio - with the 20% being advice of value and the rest just crap-talk and outright nincompoopery...or worse...

[98tls]

Cant help on the bike rim thing mate but ive seen the results (pics) of F21 being used on powdercoated car rims and it wasnt pretty.

[scumdog]

Cant help on the bike rim thing mate but ive seen the results (pics) of F21 being used on powdercoated car rims and it wasnt pretty.

We talking abouth the same stuff??

I've use it heaps on the F100 and the Oldsmobile with no issues - alway rinsed it off fairly soon after spraying it on and well before it dried out.

And it does seem to remove the brake-dust.

[bogan]

Problem with that sort of cleaner, is the cleaner builds up a surface layer on the rim. It does this because it wicks out to a very thin layer, which forms between the metal or paint, and the accumulated crud, effectively pushing the crud up to the surface. The surface of which is far less adhesive to the crud, so it is easier to get off. What you rinse off is mostly water, as the active chemicals have already had time to bond with the rim. The problem is, motorcycle rims do not experience sideways g-loading like a car, and the F21 doesn't spread out as much. The idea is by spreading very thinly, it eventually gets to the bead or other sharp point, and disperses naturally, leaving you with just a paint or metal finish on the rims. By not dispersing on bike rims, you get the second layer trying to adhere to the first, but the 'mimicry effect' of the stuff which is helpful when applied to piant or metal, now has crud on top of dried F21 to mimic, which is bad, because it essentially mirrors the molecules, and pushes the crud back into the rim. If it is a grain of sand or other sharp grit, it can do significant surface damage, wearing off paint, or taking the shine out of metal. So while you may think it's just something as simple as keeping the slippery stuff off your tyres, you'd best think again!

[scumdog]

So spraying and rinsing just won't cut it?

And I'm not sure I go with the difference in car/bike analogy...i.e. I don't go for a hard fang through tight bends straight after doing car rims, ergo there does not seem to be THAT much difference in forces

So what else works at removing brake-dust - without resporting to a tooth-brush and Autosol or similar??

[98tls]

We talking abouth the same stuff??

I've use it heaps on the F100 and the Oldsmobile with no issues - alway rinsed it off fairly soon after spraying it on and well before it dried out.

And it does seem to remove the brake-dust.

Yep,bloke posted up some pics of his powdercoated rims after using the Turtlewax wheel cleaner,he rinsed them off to find the coating pretty naffed,in many places on the rim it looked as though the colour had faded.

[scumdog]

Yep,bloke posted up some pics of his powdercoated rims after using the Turtlewax wheel cleaner,he rinsed them off to find the coating pretty naffed,in many places on the rim it looked as though the colour had faded.

Ya have to watch those stronger acid-based cleaners - good for a really oxidised old Trident etc but not recommended.

The F21 advertises on the bottle 'Contains no acids' and 'safe for anodised, aluminum, plastic wheels covers'

[bogan]

So spraying and rinsing just won't cut it?

And I'm not sure I go with the difference in car/bike analogy...i.e. I don't go for a hard fang through tight bends straight after doing car rims, ergo there does not seem to be THAT much difference in forces

So what else works at removing brake-dust - without resporting to a tooth-brush and Autosol or similar??

Yeh massive g-forces aren't required, when you combine small forces with the bumps in the road, the stuff moves around quick enough, like a shaker screen at a quarry kind of thing.

Sintered pads are pretty good for reducing brake dust! Otherwise elbow grease has always been my method of choice; with regular cleaning it is easy to keep the rims dust free anyway, calipers are a lot harder to get at though.

[98tls]

Ya have to watch those stronger acid-based cleaners - good for a really oxidised old Trident etc but not recommended.

The F21 advertises on the bottle 'Contains no acids' and 'safe for anodised, aluminum, plastic wheels covers'

This guy filed a claim with Turtlewax,long story short he got paid out $170 from there insurerthey would only pay for the damage to 1 rim as they told him he should have washed 1 rim first to see if it was safe before washing the restFwiw i always use Meguiers gold class wheel cleaner and never had a problem.

[cs363]

So what else works at removing brake-dust - without resporting to a tooth-brush and Autosol or similar??

http://www.s100.com/s100_wc.htm and recommended by Harley Davidson, so you may even get free tassles with it to add to your collection!

All the S100 products are bloody awesome (imported by Northern Accessories so should be available through their retail outlet Cycletreads and/or most bike shops), though as 98tls said, Meguiars (or Mothers) are both good as well.

[scumdog]

http://www.s100.com/s100_wc.htm and recommended by Harley Davidson, so you may even get free tassles with it to add to your collection!

All the S100 products are bloody awesome (imported by Northern Accessories so should be available through their retail outlet Cycletreads and/or most bike shops), though as 98tls said, Meguiars (or Mothers) are both good as well.

Had a look at that link, ta!

I'll locate some and try it - and let y'all know how well it works

[onearmedbandit]

You could almost guarantee some American put it on his motorcycle rims, had some residue left on his tyres, went for a ride and fell off and blamed the product he used and sued the company. Then to cover their arses against stupidity they now put 'not for motorcycle use' on their product.

[vifferman]

You could almost guarantee some American put it on his motorcycle rims, had some residue left on his tyres, went for a ride and fell off and blamed the product he used and sued the company. Then to cover their arses against stupidity they now put 'not for motorcycle use' on their product.

Um... wish I was Mrkn.
Some years ago, I was about to embark on a Saturday morning group ride on my (then) VFR750.[This story's elsewhere on KB, but I can't be bothered linking to it] Just before I set off, I looked at the bike, and the rear rim was covered in chain spooge. So, I looked around, and there was some engine degreaser on the gargre shelf. Squirted that on, rinsed it off with the hose, and set off on my way. Now, at the end of our street, there's a 'T' intersection, and traffic lights. \
Even though it was (now) fine, the road was wettish.
And it's off-camber when turning right, which I did.
HUGE slide, barely recovered, and a white-faced vifferman just managed to not crash in a heap.

Here's another story.
A few years ago, I was in the habit of cleaning the wheels of the VFR using some car wheel cleaner I'd bought for the Peugeot. It claimed on the can that it left a coating on the wheels that repelled brake dust. This turned out to be baloney, but I thought it might make chain spooge removal easier.
What happened is that it soaked into the tyres, leaving an imperceptible film. Imperceptible until the road surface was even slightly damp, in which case the rear tyre would spin up when accelerating around corners. The last time this happened (before I wised up and stopped using it), I had to do a bit of a burn-out at work, and take it for a long ride at lunch time (including some gravel roads) to give the tyre a good scrubbing.
So it all turned out well in the end.

The moral of the story kiddies, is don't use ANYTHING on your wheels except soapy water, and if you need to remove chain spooge, do it with a rag soaked in kero, WD40 or even polish (yes, most polishes are great solvents!), and make sure any grimy water that gets on your tyres is thoroughly washed off.

Oh yeah - a couple of years back, there was a guy I used to see regularly on the North Shore who was very proud of his bike, and detailed it nicely, even putting tyre shine on his tyres, including the treads.

[Usarka]

It's designed for vehicles that weigh over a tonne. The materials used in light weight wheels designed for light weight bikes can't handle the corrosiveness of the product. So your harley should be fine

[scumdog]

It's designed for vehicles that weigh over a tonne. The materials used in light weight wheels designed for light weight bikes can't handle the corrosiveness of the product. So your harley should be fine

But not the XN85??