Crafar Farms?

**StoneY** · 27th January 2012, 17:50

Am I the only one who thinks that selling this hugely valuable land to foreigners is wrong?

Opinions please .....

Mine is:

The farms sitting on illegally confiscated land in the 19th century be given back to respective Iwi's (hell they even wanted to pay for it!)
The rest could be leased to the Chinese consortium's, or sold to the Michael Faye lead group.

What is 30 million on a deal this big? Peanuts......... far more important not to let foreigners start owning our land.
Bad enough the power co selloffs.....

My rant over, whats your take?.

**Jantar** · 27th January 2012, 17:54

It appears the receivers could have got more if the farms were sold off individually rather trhan as a group.

I have no objection to foreign ownership as long as New Zealanders have at least an equal chance. By selling the farms as a group rather than individually, New Zealanders did not get an equal chance.

**James Deuce** · 27th January 2012, 18:10

Given the model of Chinese land ownership in evidence all over the world, I would expect the ex-Crafar farms to rapidly become enclaves of Chinese society, with all produce exported along with any profit. There will be no local benefit.

**Virago** · 27th January 2012, 18:14

Unfortunately this sale does show a tendancy to ingrained racism, whether we want to admit it or not.

No-one worried too much when Shania Twain bought a property which is bigger than all the Crafar Farms put together.

**mashman** · 27th January 2012, 18:17

Yup, great move to sell the farms to China... we're gonna need the money for something really really important at some point and not just some useless tracts of land. Think about all of the local jobs that will be created, the taxes that will be generated, not to mention the water usage revenues. Nope, great move, much better than selling to Kiwi's... they'll have money for electricity shares now.

**cmoore** · 27th January 2012, 18:27

NZ borrows billions to buy homes and businesses, nearly all of that money is borrowed from Australian Banks, where does all the profit go from that and how is that different from the Chinese buying land, they can't take the land anywhere.....

I have no problem with it.

I also have no issue if the country decided we didn't want to have oversees ownership and passed a law to protect it.

**James Deuce** · 27th January 2012, 18:30

Originally Posted by Virago

Unfortunately this sale does show a tendancy to ingrained racism, whether we want to admit it or not.

No-one worried too much when Shania Twain bought a property which is bigger than all the Crafar Farms put together.

No it doesn't. That is a common refrain from right-wing oriented commentators designed to quell any critical commentary from "right-thinking" liberal Kiwis. There are multiple examples of the Chinese taking ownership of land and businesses in countries foreign to them and simply removing any capability for the local yokels to share in any productive long or short term gains.

Shania Twain is an individual with no or limited political influence in her native land. The Chinese model of politics precludes any doubt that this isn't motivated by more than the simple desire for a single, very rich individual to capitalise on decades of hard work in exchange for a modern lifestyle with a rustic outlook in a comparatively safe physical, political, and economic environment.

I hesitate to say that it is the start of a land grab, but would not be surprised to see this become the start of a snowball that outstrips the expectations of those supposedly moderating foreign investment in New Zealand soil.

**98tls** · 27th January 2012, 18:37

Originally Posted by StoneY

Am I the only one who thinks that selling this hugely valuable land to foreigners is wrong?

Opinions please .....

Mine is:

The farms sitting on illegally confiscated land in the 19th century be given back to respective Iwi's (hell they even wanted to pay for it!)
The rest could be leased to the Chinese consortium's, or sold to the Michael Faye lead group.

My rant over, whats your take?.

So Iwi wanted to buy it with what,beads? i doubt it no they would want to buy it with money leeched off New Zealanders which is even more sickening,good job its gone to who it has as theres a fair chance they will put it to good use and some New Zealanders will gain from it.The other option would have seen a fuck up like everything else thats given to Iwi."illegally confiscated"

fuck thats getting boring.

**Bikemad** · 27th January 2012, 18:37

Originally Posted by James Deuce

There are multiple examples of the Chinese taking ownership of land and businesses in countries foreign to them and simply removing any capability for the local yokels to share in any productive long or short term gains.

just out of curiosity...........examples please.........other than tibet
and shania ........grrrrrr

**98tls** · 27th January 2012, 18:41

Originally Posted by James Deuce

No it doesn't. That is a common refrain from right-wing oriented commentators designed to quell any critical commentary from "right-thinking" liberal Kiwis. There are multiple examples of the Chinese taking ownership of land and businesses in countries foreign to them and simply removing any capability for the local yokels to share in any productive long or short term gains.

Shania Twain is an individual with no or limited political influence in her native land. The Chinese model of politics precludes any doubt that this isn't motivated by more than the simple desire for a single, very rich individual to capitalise on decades of hard work in exchange for a modern lifestyle with a rustic outlook in a comparatively safe physical, political, and economic environment.

I hesitate to say that it is the start of a land grab, but would not be surprised to see this become the start of a snowball that outstrips the expectations of those supposedly moderating foreign investment in New Zealand soil.

"A land grab"/"removing any capability for the local yokels to share"that rings a bell

let me think.

**mashman** · 27th January 2012, 18:42

Originally Posted by Bikemad

just out of curiosity...........examples please.........other than tibet
and shania ........grrrrrr

"China towns" around the globe? ... they ain't exactly full of whitey.

**FJRider** · 27th January 2012, 18:44

Originally Posted by Virago

Unfortunately this sale does show a tendancy to ingrained racism, whether we want to admit it or not.

No-one worried too much when Shania Twain bought a property which is bigger than all the Crafar Farms put together.

A large part of Central Otago (Queenstown included) has been bought with overseas money.

Chinese money features ... but is NOT the big player ...

**Brian d marge** · 27th January 2012, 18:58

Don't worry this is common
the ski areas up north in Japan are owned by the Australians and large chunks by the Chinese
a very good point is about the Maori. I have said all along in my big list of things to do is support iwi if you want NZ to remain NZ.. its a little bit more than that , but its the gist.
Now China is future proofing itself but heres the rub ( hamlet act 5?) if China and the Chinese way of business is the way I think it is, then expect animals and the land to be "stretched" ..I wont say exploited but .........
what what did Marx and Engles say in that little red book ....all property in the past has continually been subject to historical change ,consequent upon change in historical conditions, for example didn't the French in one of their many moments of pissed off,ness abolish feudal property in favor of bourgeois property..
as usual the rich will prosper.,keep China happy fontera will laugh all the way to skegness...

twas the same with the railway, , Jethro tull move up a few notches with his wee tricks
So at the end of the day, profit is king ( under the present and foreseeable future) the rich will consolidate their position and the land and we,the unlanded gentry will suffer

support Maori on this one , and smash those spinning Jenny's IMHO

Stephen

**Zamiam** · 27th January 2012, 19:00

Haven't paid a hell of a lot of attention to this BUT the creditors/mortgage holders of Crafar farms are entitled to as much of their money back as the receiver can get them and that is the receivers job so would be surprised if this wasn't the best deal on the table.

I love these experts who say iwi or Fay's consortium should be allowed to buy them without knowing the deals. As far as Fay goes does no one remember the BNZ, NZ Rail etc sales and that little thing called the "winebox". Fuck I should have been allowed to buy it 1 cent on the dollar would a a good deal for me.

For all the "experts" I have this question - how would you feel if I was offering you the best deal on your prized possession and someone told you that you couldn't sell it o me but you can sell it to John down the road who's offer was less than mine. Don't come back at me with "but this is our land" becauses it's not. It's owned by someone, in this case the banks and creditors who have effectively bought it for a loss and are entitled to sell it or the best price.

Lecture over