Dogs that attack - Is it the dog or the owner?

[george formby]

Try holding back a 150kg bull mastiff with a leash.
its not going to work.

Exactly, if you can't control it you should not have it.

I have a customer with a 130kg Bull Mastiff, it's trained. It does not move when commanded to stay. He does not need a leash though he uses one, the dog just sticks to his leg when he walks.

That's my point about owner licensing, to prevent the clueless from causing harm.

I should duck out of this thread before I really get on my soap box. So much trouble is caused by people who blame dogs for not being what they wanted rather than understanding what the animal really is.

[scumdog]

The owner, all it takes is a leash to control a dog & honest forethought. A dog does not wake up in the morning & think "I'm going to bite someone today"

No, but you never know when said dog might wake up with a stonking toothe-ache which caused him lack of sleep and thinks"somebody's going to pay for this"

Or evolves into the David Bain of dogs and one day...

[Brian407]

No, but you never know when said dog might wake up with a stonking toothe-ache which caused him lack of sleep and thinks"somebody's going to pay for this"

...and it happens. All the best training, and best intentions in the world doesnt overcome that fact that a dog has a brain and is capable of it's own thought processes. For the most part a dog obeys it's owner because its a pack animal and sees the owner as the leader of the pack, and it wants to, be it for reward, or fear, or love or a myriad of other reasons, and the fact is that if a dog decides, for whatever reason, that it DOESNT want to obey the pack leader anymore then there's naff all you can do about it.

I'm a dog lover, had a few of them over the years, and I dont like to see a particular breed singled out but I'm not naive enough to believe that ANY dog is completely safe, even in the best hands, and i treat them with the appropriate respect accordingly. Bit like a horse, 500kg of animal that could kill you in a heartbeat if it wanted to. Treat it with respect and convince it that your the leader of the herd and you'll be fine, until the day the horse decides it doesnt need a leader anymore.

[george formby]

No, but you never know when said dog might wake up with a stonking toothe-ache which caused him lack of sleep and thinks"somebody's going to pay for this"

Or evolves into the David Bain of dogs and one day...

That's why I advocate putting the onus on the owner to realise that happy little Fido is going to be in a really bad mood one day, same as us but the dog can't voice it. My mutt is a sweetie but I do not trust her or take for granted she will behave how I expect.
You must have come across some real bolshey mutts in your time. Do you think an owners personality is often reflected by their dogs?

[eliot-ness]

Try holding back a 150kg bull mastiff with a leash.
its not going to work.

A Bull Mastiff weighing in at 150kgs would be unlikely to attack anything bigger than a sick kitten. The average weight of that breed is 55kgs for a dog,, 50kgs for a bitch.

[TrentNz]

A Bull Mastiff weighing in at 150kgs would be unlikely to attack anything bigger than a sick kitten. The average weight of that breed is 55kgs for a dog,, 50kgs for a bitch.

"average weight"

I've had two bull mastiffs at one time, one male and one bitch. both upwards of 120kg
what you forget is that they are 80% muscle
wont attack anything bigger then a sick kitten? yeah right they'll attack anything. my bull-mastiff attacked a police dog and almost killed it.
you obviously have never had a big dog.

[Gianz]

what did the Romans do to the dogs?

[eliot-ness]

"average weight"

I've had two bull mastiffs at one time, one male and one bitch. both upwards of 120kg
what you forget is that they are 80% muscle
wont attack anything bigger then a sick kitten? yeah right they'll attack anything. my bull-mastiff attacked a police dog and almost killed it.
you obviously have never had a big dog.

I think you are confusing the Bull Mastiff with the English Mastiff which has the heaviest weight ever recorded for any dog of any breed. It weighed in at 156kgs. And yes, I have owned the breed and at the moment two of my grandsons own them As I said before, 55kgs for the bull Mastiff, and to claim you have one at 150kgs is patently ridiculous. Know your breed before making silly claims.

[Bad Biker]

[QUOTE=Virago;1130244689]I certainly think that it's that kind of mindless defence and pointless comparisons that contributes to the problem - but then again you lack the intelligence to post this thread in the right forum...[/QUOTE]


It’s comments like this that confirms a ‘Dickhead’ especially when you make judgments about someone you don’t know or have ever met.

[TrentNz]

I think you are confusing the Bull Mastiff with the English Mastiff which has the heaviest weight ever recorded for any dog of any breed. It weighed in at 156kgs. And yes, I have owned the breed and at the moment two of my grandsons own them As I said before, 55kgs for the bull Mastiff, and to claim you have one at 150kgs is patently ridiculous. Know your breed before making silly claims.

i never claimed i had a 150kg bull mastiff i said i had one upwards of 120kg


and yes. it was a purebred bull mastiff and i have never seen a bigger one to date.

[bluebird]

Some breeds are just unpredictable and latently vicious, pittbulls, and others bred for fighting, just like humans, ask the cops who commits the violent crime, its inbred some families. I own 2 dogs, both bred for hunting not fighting.

[bsasuper]

So your dogs are breed/trained for hunting, that means anything is game to them.Any dog that wanders onto my property always leaves in a animal control truck, If I feel threatened with an attack, they dont get to leave.

[thecharmed01]

...and it happens. All the best training, and best intentions in the world doesnt overcome that fact that a dog has a brain and is capable of it's own thought processes. For the most part a dog obeys it's owner because its a pack animal and sees the owner as the leader of the pack, and it wants to, be it for reward, or fear, or love or a myriad of other reasons, and the fact is that if a dog decides, for whatever reason, that it DOESNT want to obey the pack leader anymore then there's naff all you can do about it.

I'm a dog lover, had a few of them over the years, and I dont like to see a particular breed singled out but I'm not naive enough to believe that ANY dog is completely safe, even in the best hands, and i treat them with the appropriate respect accordingly. Bit like a horse, 500kg of animal that could kill you in a heartbeat if it wanted to. Treat it with respect and convince it that your the leader of the herd and you'll be fine, until the day the horse decides it doesnt need a leader anymore.

I completely agree.

My grandparents breed purebred Border Collies, they have done all my life and they have bred a lot of cross-breeds suitable for farm dogs and some specifically to be family dogs.
But even they won't 100% trust any dog, especially around strangers or children.
They are more aware/paranoid than I! I like dogs, and one's I've grown up with I'm almost over-trusting of I guess...

Example, my grandfathers current sidekick Connie, has been at his side since she was born. She is remarkable as an animal. Beautiful, friendly and she's come to his rescue many times. She is now about 14 years old.
She allows him to pull himself up banks by grabbing her fur, and she's alerted him when he almost backed into one of the farm gates in his truck - she's also alerted other people when he's had a fall (he's in his 80's you see... but thinks he's 30-something) and brought help from the neighbors farm.
She's a treasure. And not a dog I have EVER had a second though about trusting.
However, one day when I had my son at my grandparents house, we were sitting in the dining room and Connie was in the conservatory through the ranch slider.
We were all watching my son, as he was trying to pull himself up to standing, using the glass door - I was sitting on the floor behind him in case he fell and my grandparents were watching his attempts.
As soon as my son pulled himself up on the glass, Connie went ballistic.
Like nothing I have EVER seen her do in her life. She was launching herself at the glass, snarling, snapping at the glass, barking and leaping around.
It took my grandfather telling her off and dragging her out to her outside kennel before she settled down (while I'd picked up the baby) and she was kept outside the rest of that day.
My son giggled at the time, as 7 month old boys do, but my grandparents were horrified and I have to say she gave me a fright as it was so unlike her.
We visited fairly regularly and I'd never seen the point in keeping the dog away when my son was there, but thankfully my grandmother was always in the habit of putting her in the conservatory. She was around kids often, so it wasn't unusual, and my son did nothing to antagonise her whatsoever.
From that day on, she wore a muzzle when any child visited the house (there are 4 great-grandkids under 5) and my grandmother has only just started letting her keep the muzzle off, and my son is now 3.5yrs old.
Connie and him are good mates now, and Connie will warn us if he tries to touch the gate or leave the yard, but we always supervise her since no one has any clue why she went so nuts that one day.

Just really drums home that the dog you trust with your life, who is well trained and usually obedient to the point she is never restrained or gated in as she just doesn't leave the property, can turn with no notice and hit attack mode - with no rhyme or reason.

[BoristheBiter]

A working party from ACC chaired by Katman would undoubtedly conclude these attacks are the fault of the toddlers savaged, because they failed to avoid the dogs and were not wearing Hi-Viz...

What about the parents?
I put all attacks solely on people, whether that be owners or people coming into contact with said dog.
If you came up to me and stated patting me on the head you you get more than a bite.

Most don't know the first thing about what goes though a dogs mind, it's a pack animal pure and simple.

And the dog that attacks people the most is the jack russell.

[Deano]

My experience is nurture over nature, but there is definitely a scale effect and the odd outlying results...