World lacks enough food, fuel as population soars

**mashman** · 6th February 2012, 22:01

Originally Posted by jonbuoy

If we were all reasonable responsible human beings it might work, problem is were not. I might just take your bike and not bother to bring it back again or crash it - not my problem its the peoples bike - the people can fix it. Why should I bother working emptying bins when I don´t have to work and will gain nothing by doing it. Why should I bother studying for 8 years at medicine school - maybe I´ll just surf all day instead.

One country can´t just switch - how is NZ going to buy medicines, equipment, machinery? Unless you want to go back to hunter gatherer/Amish existence - which you can do for yourself without ruining the whole country.

I'm not expecting people to change as such, just to accept a different societal model

that will address many of the issues that people see as injustices. The bike is still mine and I'll hunt you down and give you a jolly stern telling off... and I doubt that just because there's no money that people will just stop making motorcycles... similar to people still wanting to make movies, clothes, rockets, a chair, big scarey looking statues with erect penises etc... so to a degree people should still be able to get "stuff". Fair enough, don't work then if you're gonna be selfish about it

. Ever heard a kid say, when I grow up I wanna be a Dr, as long as everyone else trains for 8 years as it's just so unfair, why can't I just be a Dr as the bin man doesn't require any training. Surf away, but it would be appreciated if you'd spend 4 hours(ish) a day doing something that needs to be done.

NZ will still export stuff. It will still be paid for at market rates, however labour will be free, as will transport to the dock, there will be no GST, no tax, no fuel charges etc... so when we sell the country gets 100% of the profit and out bank, yes bank (for want of a better expression), will invest everyones money on our behalf. NZ could be viewed as an all inclusive resort and any money made from tourism, which is a lot I believe, will go into the pot too. Our imports won't have GST, tax, dock to warehouse costs, just the overseas purchase costs, so medicine like fuel will be cheaper to use, well free. Being a market of educated free labour we could become a call centre for overseas companies for a small fee, we could become a tax haven for large corporate head offices for a small fee as they won't have to worry about paying wages in NZ for a free workforce... and no doubt thousands of other ways that NZ could support itself in the global financial marketplace.

**carbonhed** · 7th February 2012, 13:51

What kinda bikes are we riding in this moneyless society? And how the fuck am I going to get a Panigale????

**ducatilover** · 7th February 2012, 15:16

Originally Posted by carbonhed

And how the fuck am I going to get a Panigale????

It'll be free won't it?

**carbonhed** · 7th February 2012, 16:03

Originally Posted by ducatilover

It'll be free won't it?

How fucking awesome is that! It'll be like North Korea but with cool vehicles. I could have a Lamborghini Aventador for when it's raining... maybe a couple.

**ducatilover** · 7th February 2012, 16:50

Originally Posted by carbonhed

How fucking awesome is that! It'll be like North Korea but with cool vehicles. I could have a Lamborghini Aventador for when it's raining... maybe a couple.

Sounds like a plan to me

**mashman** · 7th February 2012, 16:54

Originally Posted by carbonhed

What kinda bikes are we riding in this moneyless society? And how the fuck am I going to get a Panigale????

You'll be riding what you have now. Move to Italy.

**Brian d marge** · 7th February 2012, 18:54

[QUOTE=SPman;

Yes Steven, but, he was a very angry man, and very political. It was how he harnessed his anger.... His power was in seeming to have no power and using it against those who thought they did have power....or something....

.[/QUOTE]

I think a few people are there already , and if they try to impose, those idiotic rules the europeans are trying to get through,,,, Your average " Ghandi ," is going a whiter shade of pale ,

Stephen

**carbonhed** · 7th February 2012, 19:09

Originally Posted by mashman

You'll be riding what you have now. Move to Italy.

Arrrgh! So it's going to be like North Korea but with Cuba's vehicle fleet? How awesome is that?

**jonbuoy** · 7th February 2012, 19:20

Originally Posted by mashman

I'm not expecting people to change as such, just to accept a different societal model

that will address many of the issues that people see as injustices. The bike is still mine and I'll hunt you down and give you a jolly stern telling off... and I doubt that just because there's no money that people will just stop making motorcycles... similar to people still wanting to make movies, clothes, rockets, a chair, big scarey looking statues with erect penises etc... so to a degree people should still be able to get "stuff". Fair enough, don't work then if you're gonna be selfish about it

. Ever heard a kid say, when I grow up I wanna be a Dr, as long as everyone else trains for 8 years as it's just so unfair, why can't I just be a Dr as the bin man doesn't require any training. Surf away, but it would be appreciated if you'd spend 4 hours(ish) a day doing something that needs to be done.

NZ will still export stuff. It will still be paid for at market rates, however labour will be free, as will transport to the dock, there will be no GST, no tax, no fuel charges etc... so when we sell the country gets 100% of the profit and out bank, yes bank (for want of a better expression), will invest everyones money on our behalf. NZ could be viewed as an all inclusive resort and any money made from tourism, which is a lot I believe, will go into the pot too. Our imports won't have GST, tax, dock to warehouse costs, just the overseas purchase costs, so medicine like fuel will be cheaper to use, well free. Being a market of educated free labour we could become a call centre for overseas companies for a small fee, we could become a tax haven for large corporate head offices for a small fee as they won't have to worry about paying wages in NZ for a free workforce... and no doubt thousands of other ways that NZ could support itself in the global financial marketplace.

Still these words are in your idea - "Bank" "money from exports" "money from tourism". If the whole world went moneyless NZ wouldn´t be able to make everything it has today - it doesn´t have the population to support synthesising of drugs for medical care that are available world wide, it can´t make all the components for a flat screen TV. What are they going to do - try and swap 10 legs of lamb for a bag of tantalum capacitors or 5 doses of the latest cancer treatment, 100 cows for an MRI scanner? It just won´t work. How are tourists going to spend money in a moneyless country?

**mashman** · 7th February 2012, 19:54

Originally Posted by carbonhed

Arrrgh! So it's going to be like North Korea but with Cuba's vehicle fleet? How awesome is that?

We could take over the world with No 8 and duct tape... At the end of the day it will all depend on the balance sheet. We will still be living in a financial world. If our exports (inc tourism and working population) are less than our imports then there will be money left over for personal imports.

Originally Posted by jonbuoy

Still these words are in your idea - "Bank" "money from exports" "money from tourism". If the whole world went moneyless NZ wouldn´t be able to make everything it has today - it doesn´t have the population to support synthesising of drugs for medical care that are available world wide, it can´t make all the components for a flat screen TV. What are they going to do - try and swap 10 legs of lamb for a bag of tantalum capacitors or 5 doses of the latest cancer treatment, 100 cows for an MRI scanner? It just won´t work. How are tourists going to spend money in a moneyless country?

If the whole world went moneyless then I think the last thing we're going to be worrying about is a new TV... and that doesn't mean that TV's won't be made, similar to other useful technology like phones, perhaps we'll all have tablets instead of PC's, or personal computers that we hang around out necks (the tech is there), dunno, but iterating through technology as we do in terms quantity, frequency and lack or reuseability really isn't helping matters in terms of global resource wasteage. I don't see us going back to the 19th century at all, nowhere near it, but we need to start managing things better imho. Bikes will still be made, hell they may even become the predominant mode of transport.

In terms of NZ "blazing the trail", we will need A bank to manage the finances of the country and that bank will have to deal with the rest of the world using money, it'll be the internal economy that won't need it. If the world goes to shit and fuel stop flowing then it won't matter if we have money or not as there will be no fuel and we'll have to revert to the 19th century living. I believe that living without money before that happens would give NZ a head start in regards to not noticing the pain as much as the financial countries. In terms of the sky not falling, it'll give us some form of insulation during times of recession, shit will still get built as local resources won't be subject to inflation, deflation, market ups and downs (exports the exception) etc... similar to natural disaster, if there's no money required for a rebuild as our resources are free, we won;t need to wait for insurance companies to sell assets etc... before they pay out, noone will need insurance either.

As you say 100 cows for an MRI etc... isn't going to work where those who sell MRI's require money in return. We will need to generate money in some form or other... until the rest of the world decides that living without money gives us a decent start point at having a crack at the big issues of the day. I don't see borders closing because there's no money, quite the opposite (that'll scare SMOKEU) and with any luck those who make MRI's will continue to do so and will make them for the world, where NZ will produce shit loads of milk and lamb and Brazil will export high quality cheap tomatoes etc... and not for money or barter, but because they can and because other country's need those things. We will do it because it needs to be done, not because there's a $ in it, which will hopefully allow us to take our foot off the gas a bit without sacrificing quality of life.

Money makes the world go around? Yet if there's no money and people just do what they're currently doing, stuff will still be made and things will get better a damn site quicker than they are for everyone and we may actually have a shot at "peace" and global cooperation for a change. I have a dream I guess

.

**SMOKEU** · 7th February 2012, 20:19

Originally Posted by mashman

technology like phones, perhaps we'll all have tablets instead of PC's, or personal computers that we hang around out necks (the tech is there)

No the technology isn't there yet. There is no substitute for a high end gaming desktop computer.

**mashman** · 7th February 2012, 20:31

Originally Posted by SMOKEU

No the technology isn't there yet. There is no substitute for a high end gaming desktop computer.

This was 3 years ago

**carbonhed** · 7th February 2012, 20:39

Originally Posted by mashman

We could take over the world with No 8 and duct tape...

Errrr... actually... no we couldn't and when you come off your meds you'll realise this. I hope they manage the withdrawal carefully.

Anyway if you can't walk into Motomart and buy a Panigale in your world then you can cram it up your arse. The only people who want to get rid of money are the sad, talentlers, losers who don't have any.