Post-Classic rules on engine swapping

[Grumph]

Ha - period F3 weights make me laugh...Tony McMurdo was quite upset when I told him my 500 Kawa weighed 142kg part wet...The pink special with VFR frame was over 150.
He was never happy with the weights of the 400 fours when he changed to those, so that's why he built a carbon fiber chassis for the 600....I suppose that's sitting in someones shed still.

[worm13]

mate I was stunned, even put it on another set of scales even and still the same result was hoping mid 130s im gonna be lucky to get it down to 148kgs

[codgyoleracer]

Chapter 25 covers this. Frames (along with swing arms, major engine castings, carbs, forks, brakes) are a major component and the the items which date the bike. Essentially these bits must be from the period, or a prior period. This means no making a frame of any design to carry an old motor. If you do manufacturer or have created from scratch any of the major components, they have to be replicas of what was available within the period and proof that it existed in the period is with the rider. The age of the most modern major component determines what age group you run in. Eg 1982 GSX1100 with 1986 GSXR1100 forks is a pre 89 bike.

When the rules say replica, this means exact copy replica, not just of the same technology. This means that if you wanted to use a tube frame replacing an alloy one, and you are going to make it, you have to copy one that had been done within the period and not just one you made to a desiogn you thought up last week.

Another example of how people misinterpret the rules is if you want to fit 4 pot Brembos on your pre 89 bike, That's cool. It just can't be ANY four pot Brembo, but one that was available before Dec 31st 1989.

HTH

I suppose the only issue with the word "replicas" Al , is the not only the "Look" as in shape & dimensions, but the materials as well (which is where it gets all a bit foggy)

On the brakes you side of things - a good example is my Bimota it has Brembo's stock (they are the black equal piston sized items), - however the later unequal piston (diff colour too) whilst "very similar", were not from the period so its a no go area aye.

GW

[nodrog:Me]

so something like this would be eligable to run in pre '89? and if it was, would it have to run with the seniors?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=448186877

[Billy]

so something like this would be eligable to run in pre '89? and if it was, would it have to run with the seniors?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=448186877

Nope,The first thing I notice is the 2000 model RS250 Bodywork which doesnt fit the era,Change that though and theres nothing else that is obvious that would make it illegal,Still unless you actually build something like that,Theres no way you can know all the major components fit the era

[nodrog:Me]

Nope,The first thing I notice is the 2000 model RS250 Bodywork which doesnt fit the era,Change that though and theres nothing else that is obvious that would make it illegal,Still unless you actually build something like that,Theres no way you can know all the major components fit the era

I may be blind, but this is all all can see regarding fairings,

"25.2.6 Fairing
Fairing and streamlining is permitted if they are of the type and style in keeping with the period of competition."
I would have thought that a fibreglass full fairing was the style of the period, regardless of shape? and there is no mention of bodywork under major components? or am i just interpreting it all wrong?


"25.2.2 Major Components
Major components are: Frame (including Swingarm), Engine and Gearbox castings, carburetors, Brakes (excluding front and rear master cylinders which are open) and forks. These are to be manufactured between Jan 1st 1963 and December 31st 1989. Major components manufactured in any country shall be acceptable. The onus of proof of eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine.
Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine."

[Billy]

I may be blind, but this is all all can see regarding fairings,

"25.2.6 Fairing
Fairing and streamlining is permitted if they are of the type and style in keeping with the period of competition."
I would have thought that a fibreglass full fairing was the style of the period, regardless of shape? and there is no mention of bodywork under major components? or am i just interpreting it all wrong?


"25.2.2 Major Components
Major components are: Frame (including Swingarm), Engine and Gearbox castings, carburetors, Brakes (excluding front and rear master cylinders which are open) and forks. These are to be manufactured between Jan 1st 1963 and December 31st 1989. Major components manufactured in any country shall be acceptable. The onus of proof of eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine.
Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine."

Nope,It has to fit the era,IE if it was NF5 bodywork (89-92) it would be OK,Theres definitely room for improvement with the Postie rules,But if your unsure you can always call either the post classic association to check,Or us here at MNZ,Ignorance is NOT an excuse for an illegal machine no matter what the class is

[MOTOXXX]

Dont get me startted on the 450's must be in F2 rule............, one of the dafter ones that......

i have to agree.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Pre 89 class racing, is it legal to put say a cbr 400 motor into a fzr 400 frame ? (All components are pre 89)

an early fireblade (900) will go in there I'm told

[Drew]

Only once you chop the front engine mount hangers off the frame and widen them.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Only once you chop the front engine mount hangers off the frame and widen them.

that is the basis of fitting a VFR750 motor into a VFR400 NC30 too, it appears. Sounds like fun: spend a lot of time effort energy and money to get something that goes as well as a bone stock CBR600

[steveyb]

I may be blind, but this is all all can see regarding fairings,

"25.2.6 Fairing
Fairing and streamlining is permitted if they are of the type and style in keeping with the period of competition."
I would have thought that a fibreglass full fairing was the style of the period, regardless of shape? and there is no mention of bodywork under major components? or am i just interpreting it all wrong?


"25.2.2 Major Components
Major components are: Frame (including Swingarm), Engine and Gearbox castings, carburetors, Brakes (excluding front and rear master cylinders which are open) and forks. These are to be manufactured between Jan 1st 1963 and December 31st 1989. Major components manufactured in any country shall be acceptable. The onus of proof of eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine.
Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period. The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine."

Call me a whinger if you like, plenty have, but what is the point in complaining or splitting hairs about fairing shape for Post Classic bikes?
If one wants to race a Post Classic bike, race a Post Classic bike that fits the period. If one does not, go race a modern bike.
Questioning the shape of fairings is just being petulant for no good reason.
Sure, full fairings were period, that is defined in the word TYPE. The shape is defined in the word STYLE. NXA model RS250 fairings are not period for Post Classic. '89 model MC18 NSR fairings would be OK, but MC21 are later and different shape slightly, so might slide by, but do not meet the spirit of the rule and at the end of the day that is the main part of the whole Post Classic thing, the SPIRIT of the rule.

I would hazard a guess that the engine in that bike is later than '89 also, at a guess.

As you were.....

[worm13]

My understanding is it has to retain the same profile of the bike and the changes arent to advanced ie making your bike look like 06 zx6 when really its a 89 zxr400 and also im currently changing my body work and have been keeping the NZPCRA in the loop with each step of the way (and its not done thru dad either) and at this point they are very happy with it air vents on the side of the bike is in the same place and looks the same its really only 50mm wider at the widest point of the fairing. looks primo by the way and all will be shown in good time

[quickbuck]

SPIRIT of the rule.

I would hazard a guess that the engine in that bike is later than '89 also, at a guess.

Sorry, you guess wrong Steve.
The XR600RG came out in 1986 did it not?
C=1983
D=1984
F=1985
G=1986
H=1987
K=1988
L=1989
M=1990
N=1991/2
P=1993
R=1994
S=1995
T=1996
V=1997
W=1998
X=1999
Y=2000


Or that's how I remembered it when I was a lad.....
As you were

[worm13]

Or that's how I remembered it when I was a lad.....
As you were

that was a very long time ago tho haha