Post-Classic rules on engine swapping

[Kickaha]

I can apreciate your point of view with the massive sponsorship deals and prizemoney you SI guys have at stake.

No you dont get the point at all

what I'm saying is if theres small grids and you are turning guys away for bikes that sit on the cusp of legality why not make the rules inclusive rather than exclusive.

Why not just build a bike that's legal in the first place, although down here we have been more tolerant on bikes in the past that aren't "quite legal" if it doesn't give them an advantage

[worm13]

I can apreciate your point of view with the massive sponsorship deals and prizemoney you SI guys have at stake.
what I'm saying is if theres small grids and you are turning guys away for bikes that sit on the cusp of legality why not make the rules inclusive rather than exclusive.
it looks to be fairly minor and insignificant areas that could be called grey areas rather than plain n simple black and white.
Again not that I'm hooked up on the ZXR forks thing for a moment but just as an example -They were available in a prooduction bike of the era. Its not a production class so therefore the forks should be allowed to be interchangeable.
As drew pointed out the early ZXR 400 forks weren't a lot better than a decently set up set of standard tele's anyway.

There has to be a line drawn in the sand some where, if you let someone slide in on something minor then somebody alse will try the next step after the 1st person and then it snow balls from there, real simple keep it to the rules build it to the rules and theres no problems as for grids it would have to be the class that provides the most amount of entries where ever you go. Im lost on why pre89 needs to have rules bent where theres no way superbikes, 600 etc have this public debate

[malcy25]

There has to be a line drawn in the sand some where, if you let someone slide in on something minor then somebody alse will try the next step after the 1st person and then it snow balls from there, real simple keep it to the rules build it to the rules and theres no problems as for grids it would have to be the class that provides the most amount of entries where ever you go. Im lost on why pre89 needs to have rules bent where theres no way superbikes, 600 etc have this public debate

No you dont get the point at all
Why not just build a bike that's legal in the first place

Bingo. perfect.

Frosty. To be really blunt. Some of us had the foresight when the rules were written to try kill issues we knew were going to arise later or stop shit that was just plain pointless. The aim is to try and have bikes that a representative of the period, not just old shitters. Representative of the period is NOT every bike fitted wiith ZXR400 forks. Suck it up and accept it.

[Drew]

As drew pointed out the early ZXR 400 forks weren't a lot better than a decently set up set of standard tele's anyway.

No, I said they were no better at all, and no better set up. Up side down forks are not better at damping fluid movement.

Anyhoo, post classics is in no shortage of racers. Why let illegal bikes in at all? Glen Williams has seen fit to build himself a legal pre '89 bike, that ran 2nd in a superbike race last year.

[FROSTY:Me]

No you dont get the point at all

gwan explain "the point" to me then.
More bikes/bigger grids more pitties more spectators more money into the club meaning potentially more events

Hey if theres full grids if pre89 jnr and full grids in pre89 senior then clearly the formula works.

Im kinda thinking that if the organising club runs an event and makes a profit due to full grids then maybee the club will be more willing to run the odd event where they perhaps loose money.

[worm13]

gwan explain "the point" to me then.
More bikes/bigger grids more pitties more spectators more money into the club meaning potentially more events

Hey if theres full grids if pre89 jnr and full grids in pre89 senior then clearly the formula works.

Im kinda thinking that if the organising club runs an event and makes a profit due to full grids then maybee the club will be more willing to run the odd event where they perhaps loose money.

The reason why clubs run at a loss is due to poor numbers in other grids, full grids come in the form of posties, F3, 150 & mini lites. 600/superbikes are the poorest grids ive seen for a very long time! so why dont we have a look at there rules and fiddle rules to full that grid up but the main reason why its low is due to the lack of money to go around I know you know it everyone knows it, but what I dont want to see is the class that have clear guidelines that I have built MY bike to follow and then for some clown to come in with a bike that doesnt follow those guidelines and beats me, its happened before and to be honest I was pretty f**ked off about it, was sorted before the next round but the difference for me from 3rd overall to 4th overall was 5 points and guess what the difference in points between 1st and 3rd in a race is 5 points now do you get the picture??

[Mental Trousers]

The reason why clubs run at a loss is due to poor numbers in other grids full grids come in the form of posties, F3, 150 & mini lites; 600/superbikes are the poorest grids ive seen for a very long time!

Is that what you meant to say?? (note the ; )

[worm13]

Is that what you meant to say?? (note the ; )

Thanks for that I still look like a tool tho haha

[malcy25]

gwan explain "the point" to me then.
More bikes/bigger grids more pitties more spectators more money into the club meaning potentially more events

Hey if theres full grids if pre89 jnr and full grids in pre89 senior then clearly the formula works.

Im kinda thinking that if the organising club runs an event and makes a profit due to full grids then maybee the club will be more willing to run the odd event where they perhaps loose money.

Frosty,

Wake up, you're dreaming!

I'm tempted to stay keep the dunces hat on and go stand in the corner but that would be rude.

The exact things you propose ie "the rules don't mean much and can be ignored" is what drives people away as worm13 above has already alluded to.

Here's one for you. Tell me why in NZ don't we just have an all in, run what you brung open class. No capacity limit, no rules apart from safety ones, and that it must have two wheels. Yep, that's what fucked Motogp.

If by now after 6 pages (on this one and a few hundred elsewhere) you can't understand the concept of postie racing and what it's about, best you stick to stuff that you do understand.

[worm13]

Frosty,

Wake up, you're dreaming!

I'm tempted to stay keep the dunces hat on and go stand in the corner but that would be rude.

The exact things you propose ie "the rules don't mean much and can be ignored" is what drives people away as worm13 above has already alluded to.

Here's one for you. Tell me why in NZ don't we just have an all in, run what you brung open class. No capacity limit, no rules apart from safety ones, and that it must have two wheels. Yep, that's what fucked Motogp.

If by now after 6 pages (on this one and a few hundred elsewhere) you can't understand the concept of postie racing and what it's about, best you stick to stuff that you do understand.

like. Oh wait this isnt facebook

[rustys]

Hi guys, i have been reading this thread with interest, i have been racing Post Classic Pre89 for a number of years now, and have meet a lot of good people through it, and enjoy the racing, and will continue to do so for a while yet.
I like racing the 400cc bikes, and over the years i have always raced my bikes in stock standard trim, keeping them relieable. Like a few others i/we have never had the money to outlay on engine performance bits, or to be competitive with the Kitted 400's and the now appearing 600s in 400 frames, so it tends to take the enjoyment out of it sometimes.
Last year i was going to spend money by putting a 600cc engine into a 400 frame to be more competitive, but i see that the new Classes F1/F2 and F3 in posties is now being introduced, so this will suit the bike that i race now.
I think that this will be good for the grids as we may see more 400cc stock bikes come back, if i'am right we should also see and have some good close racing again.
The cost of racing a stock 400 is minamal and affordable for most.
Thats just my thoughts from an old 65year old racer.

[worm13]

Hi guys, i have been reading this thread with interest, i have been racing Post Classic Pre89 for a number of years now, and have meet a lot of good people through it, and enjoy the racing, and will continue to do so for a while yet.
I like racing the 400cc bikes, and over the years i have always raced my bikes in stock standard trim, keeping them relieable. Like a few others i/we have never had the money to outlay on engine performance bits, or to be competitive with the Kitted 400's and the now appearing 600s in 400 frames, so it tends to take the enjoyment out of it sometimes.
Last year i was going to spend money by putting a 600cc engine into a 400 frame to be more competitive, but i see that the new Classes F1/F2 and F3 in posties is now being introduced, so this will suit the bike that i race now.
I think that this will be good for the grids as we may see more 400cc stock bikes come back, if i'am right we should also see and have some good close racing again.
The cost of racing a stock 400 is minamal and affordable for most.
Thats just my thoughts from an old 65year old racer.

The very reason on why im with the F1/F2/F3 setup, not only just 400s but now we should see some 2 smokers out racing again which would be nice to spice it up a bit more, not allowing 450s well that should come into the period racing bracket when it gets to pre 2003 bracket 03 being the start of the 450's that would be part of that novelty of that period i guess but once again when that period begins along come the sv and cycle goes on how ever 450s werent a F3 class rule and for the spirt of the class should run in F2.
No point going to all this effort of keeping bikes period and not racing them as per the period rullings IMO.

[gatch]

Hi guys, i have been reading this thread with interest, i have been racing Post Classic Pre89 for a number of years now, and have meet a lot of good people through it, and enjoy the racing, and will continue to do so for a while yet.
I like racing the 400cc bikes, and over the years i have always raced my bikes in stock standard trim, keeping them relieable. Like a few others i/we have never had the money to outlay on engine performance bits, or to be competitive with the Kitted 400's and the now appearing 600s in 400 frames, so it tends to take the enjoyment out of it sometimes.
Last year i was going to spend money by putting a 600cc engine into a 400 frame to be more competitive, but i see that the new Classes F1/F2 and F3 in posties is now being introduced, so this will suit the bike that i race now.
I think that this will be good for the grids as we may see more 400cc stock bikes come back, if i'am right we should also see and have some good close racing again.
The cost of racing a stock 400 is minamal and affordable for most.
Thats just my thoughts from an old 65year old racer.

Yeah I'm pretty stoked too. It means I'll be up against the like of dudes like you on stock, or minimally modified 400s. My bike as it is is stock. I love the idea of riding to the track. Unbolt some bits, hoon it, bolt bits back on then ride home.

With the rules the way they were ie up to 600cc for juniors, it would be pointless for me to even show up. So this has opened a whole new avenue for me. Chur

[Billy]

The very reason on why im with the F1/F2/F3 setup, not only just 400s but now we should see some 2 smokers out racing again which would be nice to spice it up a bit more, not allowing 450s well that should come into the period racing bracket when it gets to pre 2003 bracket 03 being the start of the 450's that would be part of that novelty of that period i guess but once again when that period begins along come the sv and cycle goes on how ever 450s werent a F3 class rule and for the spirt of the class should run in F2.
No point going to all this effort of keeping bikes period and not racing them as per the period rullings IMO.

So if its being kept to period class rules to eliminate the 450s,Then there won't be any 2 stroke multi's GP or production based eligible until there's a pre 95 class ???

F3 rules should read,

Up to 400cc multi cylinder 4 stroke
Up to 250cc single cylinder 2 stroke
Up to 500cc single cylinder 3 stroke
Up to 500cc twin cylinder 4 stroke
Open single cylinder 4 stroke
As I recall without digging out an old rule book from the archives.

[lukemillar]

The very reason on why im with the F1/F2/F3 setup, not only just 400s but now we should see some 2 smokers out racing again which would be nice to spice it up a bit more, not allowing 450s well that should come into the period racing bracket when it gets to pre 2003 bracket 03 being the start of the 450's that would be part of that novelty of that period i guess but once again when that period begins along come the sv and cycle goes on how ever 450s werent a F3 class rule and for the spirt of the class should run in F2.
No point going to all this effort of keeping bikes period and not racing them as per the period rullings IMO.

At the end of the day, it really won't be much different from last year in terms of the actual racing. You'll still be out there with the same 750+/600/450 et al. as before and will invariably end up racing against similarly paced people regardless of what size engine you/they are running! The only difference will be at the end of the race when you see how many points you scored. Last year, I had some massive battles with guys on Snr. bikes and although on paper it made no frickin difference, it was still a hellva lot of fun.