Post-Classic rules on engine swapping

[Mental Trousers]

Up to 500cc single cylinder 3 stroke

What the hell is a 3 stroke??

[codgyoleracer]

What the hell is a 3 stroke??

2 strokes (you can get away with)
3 strokes (your a wanker)
4 strokes (your a pervert)

[Mental Trousers]

It's shakes not strokes you dirty old man.

[worm13]

So if its being kept to period class rules to eliminate the 450s,Then there won't be any 2 stroke multi's GP or production based eligible until there's a pre 95 class ???

F3 rules should read,

Up to 400cc multi cylinder 4 stroke
Up to 250cc single cylinder 2 stroke
Up to 500cc single cylinder 3 stroke
Up to 500cc twin cylinder 4 stroke
Open single cylinder 4 stroke
As I recall without digging out an old rule book from the archives.

Well thats ruined my argument, Ive always assumed the rules were 250 2 stroke twin cylinder oh well to boost my argument should we start a pre89 250 proddie class hahaha but thanks for pointing that out, with the up to 250 single 2 smoke was the 125gp bikes excluded from that? or was it later on?

[Grumph]

So if its being kept to period class rules to eliminate the 450s,Then there won't be any 2 stroke multi's GP or production based eligible until there's a pre 95 class ???

F3 rules should read,

Up to 400cc multi cylinder 4 stroke
Up to 250cc single cylinder 2 stroke
Up to 500cc single cylinder 3 stroke
Up to 500cc twin cylinder 4 stroke
Open single cylinder 4 stroke
As I recall without digging out an old rule book from the archives.

As I recall, 4 strokes, 400 multis, 500 twins, unlimited singles.
2 strokes, 125 multis (effectively twins) and 250 singles.

Remember, we still had a 250 GP class as well as 250 proddy - the few TZ350's still running were F2 with the 600 fours.
If anyone does want to run a period legal 250 proddy, I'd think the logical place to run it would be in F3 - at the organisers discretion.
Modified of course would go up to F2......

[FROSTY:Me]

Frosty,

Wake up, you're dreaming!

I'm tempted to stay keep the dunces hat on and go stand in the corner but that would be rude.

The exact things you propose ie "the rules don't mean much and can be ignored" is what drives people away as worm13 above has already alluded to.

Here's one for you. Tell me why in NZ don't we just have an all in, run what you brung open class. No capacity limit, no rules apart from safety ones, and that it must have two wheels. Yep, that's what fucked Motogp.

If by now after 6 pages (on this one and a few hundred elsewhere) you can't understand the concept of postie racing and what it's about, best you stick to stuff that you do understand.

You are overly defensive aren't you ?? Where did I say "throw away the rules?" At NO point did I say that. Keeping in mind I was at and racing in the first pre 89 race on my zxr750 and 400
All I suggested was that the rules be INCLUSIVE rather than exclusive
Ohh and why not a run what you brung class? simple really. Because those who make the rules say "it won't work" -a ruling from on high because "we" decide it wont work.
Comparing such a class to the multi billion dollar operation that is Moto gp is rediculous. Run what you brung is a logical next step "up" for a regular track dayer --feeding the funnel.

[Kickaha]

All I suggested was that the rules be INCLUSIVE rather than exclusive

Yes INCLUSIVE of bikes not legal for the class was what you suggested

Run what you brung is a logical next step "up" for a regular track dayer --feeding the funnel.

Its called clubmans

[Billy]

What the hell is a 3 stroke??

Ummm! The longest youve ever masturbated for ???? LMFAO!

[Drew]

You are overly defensive aren't you ?? Where did I say "throw away the rules?" At NO point did I say that. Keeping in mind I was at and racing in the first pre 89 race on my zxr750 and 400
All I suggested was that the rules be INCLUSIVE rather than exclusive
Ohh and why not a run what you brung class? simple really. Because those who make the rules say "it won't work" -a ruling from on high because "we" decide it wont work.
Comparing such a class to the multi billion dollar operation that is Moto gp is rediculous. Run what you brung is a logical next step "up" for a regular track dayer --feeding the funnel.

Dude, you're getting your back up for no reason here. Your suggestions have been tabled before, and concensus is that including the few bikes that are on the cusp of qualifying now, is a mistake. Because the rules were set up specifically to exclude those bikes that would have an unfair advantage. Hense the rules need a slight re-write to read, "Pre (insert year here) machines are defined as the first year, in which they were publicly available for sale.

Clubmans exists for exactly the people you refer to, stepping into racing for the first time. And burglers.

MOST people who do race, do not want to get smoked by a bike they couldn't buy when they started, but is now allowed into their class. If it were me, I'd pack up my bike and not return.

[sugilite:Me]

OK, here is a curly question. The rules under 25.5.6 state "Front and rear brakes must be manufactured in the period, or faithful replicas." So if you want replacement calipers that fit a Ducati 851, and brembo state they no longer make that caliper, but do have a replacement caliper, which incidentally has an official Ducati part number listed as replacement calipers for a 1988-89 851/888, is that legal? (they are different only in the fact they have different piston sizes, they are still single pin with 40mm spacing).

[malcy25]

OK, here is a curly question. The rules under 25.5.6 state "Front and rear brakes must be manufactured in the period, or faithful replicas." So if you want replacement calipers that fit a Ducati 851, and brembo state they no longer make that caliper, but do have a replacement caliper, which incidentally has an official Ducati part number listed as replacement calipers for a 1988-89 851/888, is that legal? (they are different only in the fact they have different piston sizes, they are still single pin with 40mm spacing).

If they don't represent what was available or manufactured in period, no go. You'll have to be a bit more inventive in where you source them from. I got a set of Grimeca calipers which were exact replicas of a period Brembo, brand new about 18 months back. Not sure if they did 4 pot ones as well.

[FROSTY:Me]

Dude, you're getting your back up for no reason here.

Nahh matey I'm seriously not in the slightest bit getting even a tiny bit miffed.
I guess if anything I was having a cynical little snigger comparing this conversation with the Pro twins conversation
Ie what is (would be) allowed and what isn't (wouldn't)
In 30 years around the tracks nothing has really changed.

[Grumph]

Nahh matey I'm seriously not in the slightest bit getting even a tiny bit miffed.
I guess if anything I was having a cynical little snigger comparing this conversation with the Pro twins conversation
Ie what is (would be) allowed and what isn't (wouldn't)
In 30 years around the tracks nothing has really changed.

I'm personally pleased there is a "fudge factor" in the rules - I'd always prefer to out-think the opposition rather than out spend them...

If you leave no room for interpretation you get no progress - look at the Kartsport manual as an example of how tightly you could be regulated. Their mantra is - If it doesn't say you can do it, you can't !!! The first lesson when racing is how to read the rulebook.

I'll see your 30 years and admit to 44 as a participant plus about another 10 as a young supporter....shit after working that out i need a rest....

[ellipsis]

....you dont have time to rest Greg...you have all those other peoples dreams to build yet...

[jasonu]

Nahh matey I'm seriously not in the slightest bit getting even a tiny bit miffed.
I guess if anything I was having a cynical little snigger comparing this conversation with the Buckets conversation
Ie what is (would be) allowed and what isn't (wouldn't)
In 30 years around the tracks nothing has really changed.

Fixed it for ya.