Post-Classic rules on engine swapping

[steveyb]

So let me ask then. The new proposal to redesignate Post Classic Snr and Jnr into F1, F2, F3 classes will be run under what F1, F2 and F3 rules?
Rules as per 1982 and 1989?
Well, I don't recall that NZ had an F1 class in 1989, was it not Senior Production or something similar?
Does anyone actually have copies of the F2 and F3 rules from the day? If so, it should be known that they are/were Formula Rules therefore all sorts of mods were permissable, including Methanol and the use of turbochargers on 400's.

Rules as per 2012?
We no longer have F1 or F2, so there can be no rules and they will have to be made up, F3(Superlite) rules allow 450cc 4 cyl multi's.

A can of worms that it seems no one has really thought through clearly.

[Billy]

I think its because it missed the boat last year, hence why NZPCRA and up coming vicclub are running it as a sup reg but I do belive the wheels are in moition

So let me ask then. The new proposal to redesignate Post Classic Snr and Jnr into F1, F2, F3 classes will be run under what F1, F2 and F3 rules?
Rules as per 1982 and 1989?
Well, I don't recall that NZ had an F1 class in 1989, was it not Senior Production or something similar?
Does anyone actually have copies of the F2 and F3 rules from the day? If so, it should be known that they are/were Formula Rules therefore all sorts of mods were permissable, including Methanol and the use of turbochargers on 400's.

Rules as per 2012?
We no longer have F1 or F2, so there can be no rules and they will have to be made up, F3(Superlite) rules allow 450cc 4 cyl multi's.

A can of worms that it seems no one has really thought through clearly.

Not in the rulebook, Mr Chairman....

It would appear that the proposal put up by NZPCRA has been greeted with such acclamation that no one bothered to put in a remit.

Certainly in the SI CAMS are actively running to the pre 89 F3 regs as far as capacity goes - and trying to police ( politely) the 400cc limit for multis.
It would seem to be an idea whose time has come so someone should get off their arse and do the remit surely.

Wrong,wrong and wrong,Nobody has applied for supp regs to run the classes mentioned above,Therefore NOBODY should be running them,If you want to know the answer,Contact me through the correct channels and you will find out,The correct channels are not Kiwibiker.

[slowpoke]

So let me ask then. The new proposal to redesignate Post Classic Snr and Jnr into F1, F2, F3 classes will be run under what F1, F2 and F3 rules?
Rules as per 1982 and 1989?
Well, I don't recall that NZ had an F1 class in 1989, was it not Senior Production or something similar?
Does anyone actually have copies of the F2 and F3 rules from the day? If so, it should be known that they are/were Formula Rules therefore all sorts of mods were permissable, including Methanol and the use of turbochargers on 400's.

Rules as per 2012?
We no longer have F1 or F2, so there can be no rules and they will have to be made up, F3(Superlite) rules allow 450cc 4 cyl multi's.

A can of worms that it seems no one has really thought through clearly.

I brought this up a while back: it's not just a Post Classic problem, many clubs/events run F1, F2 type classes, under rules that don't seem to be stipulated anywhere. It's a strange state of affairs.......

What rules are clubs/events running under when 400/450's are allowed to enter an F2 race? MNZ rules stipulate 501-600cc 4 stroke multi's in Supersport and 600 Superstock.

Same with 600's entering F1. MNZ stipulate +700cc for 4 stroke multi's to enter Superbike.

It's all more than a bit fucked up.

[ellipsis]

It's all a more than a bit fucked up.

.....understatement...

[jasonu]

Wrong,wrong and wrong,Nobody has applied for supp regs to run the classes mentioned above,Therefore NOBODY should be running them,If you want to know the answer,Contact me through the correct channels and you will find out,The correct channels are not Kiwibiker.

Maybe KB is not the 'correct' channel but it is certainly one that a LOT of racers and bikers alike read...

[Billy]

I brought this up a while back: it's not just a Post Classic problem, many clubs/events run F1, F2 type classes, under rules that don't seem to be stipulated anywhere. It's a strange state of affairs.......

What rules are clubs/events running under when 400/450's are allowed to enter an F2 race? MNZ rules stipulate 501-600cc 4 stroke multi's in Supersport and 600 Superstock.

Same with 600's entering F1. MNZ stipulate +700cc for 4 stroke multi's to enter Superbike.

It's all more than a bit fucked up.

Absolutely correct,Thats why almost as soon as I took over as chairman I contacted some of the club organisers and asked them to formulate some new F1/F2 rules,As soon as they have been ratified they will be on the MNZ website as non championship classes.

[slowpoke]

Absolutely correct,Thats why almost as soon as I took over as chairman I contacted some of the club organisers and asked them to formulate some new F1/F2 rules,As soon as they have been ratified they will be on the MNZ website as non championship classes.

Well done mate

[codgyoleracer]

Ouch man I havent had a Pie for 3 weeks its them damn energy drinks lol also the titanium can be discussed with the surgeon on the 21st
Im agasint the 450 thing for budget reasons.. to many people have built 450s and blow up regularly and then the sport losses thoses people due to lossing intrest in because of the cost that has come with it, and at the moemenet how many 450s run in Posties? If you set the bar for people to run at 450 then chances are we may loose them in a years time and what would that do to the grids we have now?
The idea of changing frames was a half arsed idea and by no means am I aguring the point that you can or cant, Just flicked thru a 2 wheels mag regarding the katana that steve martin rode at PI and looking at the macs chassis, My very limited know of the pre82 I didnt know that, that was as per what you could get in that period, question was asked, question was answered and have not looked at that anymore.
By the way bike build at the moe is ive cut 8 kilos out of it already and 7 off me

If your modus operandi is that you are "against the 450's thing for budget reasons" - then i would quietly suggest that this not be part of your proposed remit as there is a good chance it will fall on deaf ears if on that basis.

Your own "percived budget" will be very different to someone elses. Another competitor might think your own investment is "excessive" and want the rules changed to suit their own affordability. Or someone that can afford to spend more will look at your own effort as half-arsed and job not done right.
Its all relevant aye.
Any rules rules must and are mostly written for the "good of the whole" , thats why they are so dammed hard to write.

My suggestion (& its not) if you wanted a cost limitation based set of rules is to be submitted , would be to draft to read along the lines of the superstock rules for the era. You would need to have specific rules for all major components of the bike. However a set of rules like that becomes quite difficult when they are trying to encompass so many varied models / designs.

The only other set of rules that appear effective in controlling investment - is the "buy back" rule.

Best have a re-think on how best to approach MNZ on that one.


GW

[malcy25]

Well, I don't recall that NZ had an F1 class in 1989, was it not Senior Production or something similar?

Formula one in NZ was in fact the first formula class we had from the late 70's or so. It changed names at various times to Superbike to mimic or hang off world superbike. That's where the Britten and various other specials or factory style race bikes used to hang out.

Open production ALSO existed through that period.

[malcy25]

Any rules rules must and are mostly written for the "good of the whole" , thats why they are so dammed hard to write.

My suggestion (& its not) if you wanted a cost limitation based set of rules is to be submitted , would be to draft to read along the lines of the superstock rules for the era. You would need to have specific rules for all major components of the bike. However a set of rules like that becomes quite difficult when they are trying to encompass so many varied models / designs.
GW

Hence why Postie classes in NZ are structured on a formula/capacity/age basis as it's a hell fo a lot easier to manage and control than "production" racing which would be nightmare....

[malcy25]

Not in the rulebook, Mr Chairman....

It would appear that the proposal put up by NZPCRA has been greeted with such acclamation that no one bothered to put in a remit.

Certainly in the SI CAMS are actively running to the pre 89 F3 regs as far as capacity goes - and trying to police ( politely) the 400cc limit for multis.
It would seem to be an idea whose time has come so someone should get off their arse and do the remit surely.

From attending the NZPCRA Inc AGM last year, this was put up as a way to get bikes BACK on the grid that people didn't want to run cos they didn't think they were competitive. Ie Pre 89 250 2 strokes. Early RGV's, TZR's, RZ250's, KR1's which basically had to run against CBR600's and the like.

The general theory was why not try it for a year where possible and see what it looks like. If it pans out, remit time. Japanese F3 rules for years allowed proddie basedr 250's in.

F3 was introduced in 87 as a replacement for the original 125 Racing class that struggled for entries and over time was tweaked. Why not pay lip service to the the rules that were in place at the time and use hindsight to build a class that fits some of the best aspects while preserving the bikes.

The big thing is that no where in the rules say this is proddie racing, but you can understand for parity purposes why the capcacity limits are what they are. EG 430cc for multi cylinder 2 stroke. Other wise you'll get RG500's in the Juniors....

Again as the "oh so perceptive" Codgy says, it's a bugger writing rules that are easy to read, meaningful, understandable and ensure a certain parity, but realistic to how it was - ie the bike that used to win should not suddenly become outclassed.....

[Billy]

Other wise you'll get RG500's in the Juniors....

As is the case at HD next week according to the confirmed entry list I have???

[malcy25]

As is the case at HD next week according to the confirmed entry list I have???

I haven't seen the list so you're one up on me.

As we know, you can have as many rules as you like, but if people don;t read the rule book...I'd suggest the entrant may not have.

Do you want to query that with Lynette and or Colleen? Or do you want me to drop them a note?

[malcy25]

As is the case at HD next week according to the confirmed entry list I have???

You missed one bike too..... Sorted that too.

Sorry GW....!

[Billy]

You missed one bike too..... Sorted that too.

Sorry GW....!

All good then,Was waiting til tomorrow for a final list,But if youve already taken care of it,All the better