Regulator/Rectifiers. Bring your knowledge

[Fast Eddie]

I just got home and wondered what stunk in my garage, then was surrounded by smoke. I hopped off the bike and she was smoking well, shut her down and pulled off some fairings to find the regulator/rectifier was smoking away heavily.
I'm going to safely assume its rooted.

I want to know, how much damage can be done to the rest of the electrical system if the reg/rec fails? I think I rode it a fair way before I got home and noticed aye.

I've blown a reg/rec on a cbr600 before and that just led to endless problems with charging system, general wiring and frying CDI's..

Anyone explain what the reg/rec (apart from just regulating the current or whatever) does and how much potential damage can be caused if the reg/rec fails and you keep running the engine. Should I be checking other parts now that I have been running the bike with damaged eletrical components? I don't want to just replace the reg/rec and then have other parts start to fail on me one by one on the side of the road eh.

Also - anyone got a reg/rec for a '97 Blade?

Cheers

[FJRider]

Take a look here.

http://www.wemoto.com/info/Regulator_Rectifier/

[Fast Eddie]

Cheers man - also, anyone want to confirm or correct my thoughts.. my battery was playing up lately.. last few months. would go flat by itself after 1-2 weeks of no use.. could a dying battery over work the reg/rec and cause it to fail.. or more likely a failing reg/rec has rooted the battery?

either way it could be an early warning next time..

[FJRider]

Cheers man - also, anyone want to confirm or correct my thoughts.. my battery was playing up lately.. last few months. would go flat by itself after 1-2 weeks of no use.. could a dying battery over work the reg/rec and cause it to fail.. or more likely a failing reg/rec has rooted the battery?

either way it could be an early warning next time..

Or the battery was getting fucked by the reg/rec.

Check all the bulbs too ...

[Fast Eddie]

Or the battery was getting fucked by the reg/rec.

Check all the bulbs too ...

yea all light bulbs/indicators/horn working. a good sign for now

[neels]

I had a rec/reg fail on my xj600, cooked the battery but the rest of the electrics survived ok. Check the level of the battery, if it's been overcharging it may have boiled off some electrolyte.

If you have a multimeter, check for shorts to ground between the 3 phase inputs from the alternator and the case.

With the bike running the AC output from the alternator should be upwards of 40VAC between phases

[ducatilover]

Check the electrolyte in the battery, has probably boiled out.
You may find one or two of the output wires have melted from heat on the reg too.

Fuck wemoto, go eBay!

[paturoa]

The 2 most common fail impacts result from it going short or open. There are others.

When it goes short, typically all of the current that the battery and / or generation can muster passes straight it to ground and the magic blue smoke comes out of the reg itself. This typically can cause other wires in the loom to melt their insulation or cook whatever generation thingie you have. Sometimes fuses blow, but not often.

The other, is going open. This can cause smoke from the reg as it blows itself, but unlikely. The other impacts can be over voltage into the other componenets and or loom. Unliklely to impact anything major expect cooking the battery if its been happening for a while.

[DrunkenMistake]

Usually if the reg/rec has gone, the stator is probably gone, and your battery will be shagged

[ducatilover]

Usually if the reg/rec has gone, the stator is probably gone, and your battery will be shagged

Not even ow

[bogan]

There is an excellent reg/rect/stator/battery fault finding flow chart around somewhere, google for it, print it out, and use it often!

[spanner spinner]

I have worked on heaps of these including my own, if the bike was still running cdi etc should still be ok as it has overvoltage protection built in.
You will need to test the stator. Test all yellow wires to earth should be no connection to earth if there it is stuffed. Then test across the pairs of yellow wires you are looking for 0.4 to 0.9 of a ohm if it tests more than the higher figure it's stuffed, then check with the bike running it should be more than 15 volts at idle 50 to 60 volts unloaded at 4-5 thousand rpm.
There are two other problems that blades suffer from check the stator connector under the seat blades have a extra connector in the feed line to the reg/rec that burns up and goes high resistance, this can cause the reg/rec to burn out.
When you replace the reg rec put in a later version (cbr1100xx injected cbr1000rr etc) these are a large finned unit that is heaps more reliable than the standard reg rec. there is a little rewiring to fit the better unit and you can remove the extra connection under the seat. I have seen a couple of blades that have caught fire due to the connector under the seat as it sits right under a hole that opens up into the seat foam if the connector gets hot enough to short out it sets fire to the seat foam.
Eurobike do a aftermarket reg/rec of the large finned type that you should be able to get through your local dealer part number is DA REG35/3 this is the unit that I usually fit.

[Juzz976]

Motorcycle reg/rect work by controlling the amount of current that is shunting or bypassing back through to alternator windings to drop the voltage (regulates voltage). The rectifier part is just diodes that allow current to flow in one direction only, your battery smooths out alot of the pulses from the rectified DC Current.

Theres usually a pair of diodes per stator winding to rectify the ac into DC, if a diode or diodes die the remaining diodes have to supply more current putting additional load on the windings that have good diodes. They may also get hot, however if the regulator works fine the system does not experience any overvoltages.

If the reg has a bad connection, is not heat sinked properly to frame or has had damage from overvoltages then it will continue to degrade and heating effect is snowballed, this in turn does not allow the reg to drain off enough current and an overvoltage situation arises. possible damage may occur to electronics if the battery is unable to filter out the excess voltage. However it is likely that the battery is getting boiled by the overvoltage.

Testing a tricky thing if you don't have much multimeter experience or access to oscillioscope.

[Fast Eddie]

mean, cheers for all the info people. That was great.

another quick question, I obviously shouldnt run the bike without the reg/rec plugged in or is it ok? I just want to test the stator before I order some new parts incase I need anything else.. but was thinking if I test it with bike running while broken reg is connected, running while broken reg disconnected or if I have to replace the reg first then test.

I'm hoping I havent shorted out or melted any wires in the loom. there is nothing visible.. but who knows whats happening under the insulation/covers aye..

hoping I'v just fried the reg and everything else is sweet and that I can just plug a new one in and carry on. all lights/instruments were working fine and engine ran/started fine.. so hoping for the best!!

gotta finish of building my 2 stroke rather than be wasting time on this old diesel eh

and as a final note.. I no longer think hondas are especially reliable.. my kawasakis both gave me less problems than the 5 hondas I've owned (which have all broken down several times each)

[Fast Eddie]

I have worked on heaps of these including my own, if the bike was still running cdi etc should still be ok as it has overvoltage protection built in.
You will need to test the stator. Test all yellow wires to earth should be no connection to earth if there it is stuffed. Then test across the pairs of yellow wires you are looking for 0.4 to 0.9 of a ohm if it tests more than the higher figure it's stuffed, then check with the bike running it should be more than 15 volts at idle 50 to 60 volts unloaded at 4-5 thousand rpm.
There are two other problems that blades suffer from check the stator connector under the seat blades have a extra connector in the feed line to the reg/rec that burns up and goes high resistance, this can cause the reg/rec to burn out.
When you replace the reg rec put in a later version (cbr1100xx injected cbr1000rr etc) these are a large finned unit that is heaps more reliable than the standard reg rec. there is a little rewiring to fit the better unit and you can remove the extra connection under the seat. I have seen a couple of blades that have caught fire due to the connector under the seat as it sits right under a hole that opens up into the seat foam if the connector gets hot enough to short out it sets fire to the seat foam.
Eurobike do a aftermarket reg/rec of the large finned type that you should be able to get through your local dealer part number is DA REG35/3 this is the unit that I usually fit.

cheers man, that is some solid advice. I am very wiring phobic, I'm colorblind and have a better chance of reading chinese than following a wiring diagram.. so kind of planning to just buy a straight replacement part and plug it in aye.
I will check with a bike shop in town (there is no Honda dealers in dunedin at all) and see if they can get me that part and the cost. I go a quote from them yesterday for some finned replacement but it was 270 bucks..

bikebusters on trademe have got a used reg/rec from a wrecked blade same as mine for 80 bucks which is what I was planning to get and fit for now..

finally when testing the stator, should this be done with a new/working reg rec connected, with no reg/rec connected at all, or still with the failed reg/rec connected (cant imagine this is a good idea)

Cheers