Ports of Auckland

[RDJ]

Well now.... the facts of the situation may be inconvenient to the union boosters but they remain facts.

Fact 1: In Auckland, the Maritime Union went on strike to retain outdated work practices (a.k.a. habits) that have long been proven to be unproductive in competitor ports elsewhere in NZ.

Fact 2: Yes, some managers are grossly overpaid and aged care workers are underpaid but the wharf's management ranks for example have been more than decimated (in the original sense of the word) over the years at the same time as their workload increased. Wharfies don't want to have that happen to them; they want to keep the high income for low hours, have lifelong job security, and keep their featherbedded environment, which is understandable in terms of human nature. But not realistic. The rest of us have had to move with the times and the wharfies' strike is just blackmail.

[puddytat]

Billy Bragg at his best

[JMemonic]

These same arguments were used a few years ago in another port, claims of losing business because the hours the watersiders were not working, only worked half the hours paid, a heap of folks on here knowing all, based on the media campaign organised by the port management slammed the employees, and guess what, they knew nothing.

I suspect the case here is similar give the port I am referring to was under offer from the former employer of the current POA ceo/chief. Many of the tactics were the similar, inflated earning figures etc one watersider on 120k plus blah blah, the highest earning guy was on about 90k and he worked mostly night shifts and some weeks up to 70 hours per week.

As this is a emotive topic due to a dedicated campaign by POA to tell you all the earnings of its employees and make it look as if they are getting it better than you, you all know best. Just wonder how you would like to work their shifts, in the conditions they sometimes work.

There will be load of facts out there we have not been privy to, the unions are needed in this environment, large employers can afford the best lawyers to poke loopholes in the ERA, individual employees cant, divide and concur, sure you bosses are great in smaller business but these kind of outfits consider workers as simply a cost not a benefit.

[RDJ]

These same arguments were used a few years ago in another port, claims of losing business because the hours the watersiders were not working, only worked half the hours paid, a heap of folks on here knowing all, based on the media campaign organised by the port management slammed the employees, and guess what, they knew nothing. Just wonder how you would like to work their shifts, in the conditions they sometimes work.

This is a common meme - that those of us who are against your position of "Workers Good and Truthful, Management Bad and Lying", have ourselves never and do not now work in as bad or worse conditions for less pay than these poor put-upon "workers". Speak only for yourself and your straw men - many of us have, and did, and sometimes still do - which is why we recognise when a group of people are getting an ultra-good deal and want it perpetuated in the face of reality at others' expense.

"He who increases taxes on Peter to pay Paul more benefits, can always relay on the support of Paul".

[Howie]

Whatever happened to the principle of an honest days work for an honest days pay? Neither underpaid or overpaid.These morons are grossly overpaid for what they do. ( As in fairness so are many CEOs and managers. ) They have proven themselves to be out of touch with the real world, more trouble than they are worth and essentially unemployable.

This disagreement is about more than an honest days pay for an honest days work as I see it. Are you aware that the port of tauraunga which uses a form of compititive stevedoring for it's labour force has had 3 deaths in the last 2 years on it's site. There are also basic H&S issue's that would need resolving if such a system came in.
I also see that main stream media hasn't made much mention of the fact that the port of Auckland being declared the worlds first Port of convenience by the ITF.

I wonder which is the next sector of the NZ to be in the firing line?

[RDJ]

This disagreement is about more than an honest days pay for an honest days work as I see it. Are you aware that the port of tauraunga which uses a form of compititive stevedoring for it's labour force has had 3 deaths in the last 2 years on it's site. There are also basic H&S issue's that would need resolving if such a system came in.

We should be careful with this line of argument. For example.... One of the deaths (for which the company was heavily fined) occurred when a worker walked out in front of a forklift and was, sadly, killed by the impact. The company was fined for not having headlights on the forklift. The worker was wearing hi-viz... Was this death the fault of labor practices and management negligence...?

[JMemonic]

This is a common meme - that those of us who are against your position of "Workers Good and Truthful, Management Bad and Lying", have ourselves never and do not now work in as bad or worse conditions for less pay than these poor put-upon "workers". Speak only for yourself and your straw men - many of us have, and did, and sometimes still do - which is why we recognise when a group of people are getting an ultra-good deal and want it perpetuated in the face of reality at others' expense.

"He who increases taxes on Peter to pay Paul more benefits, can always relay on the support of Paul".

Well done you have mistaken my points, no where did I suggest that others do not have it as good as the port workers. I merely pointed out all the facts are not broadcast to allow informed and rational understanding. Sure others have it worse, some better but why on earth would you not attempt to retain what you have. I guess you would take worse conditions and less money for more work to do the same tasks you have for some time with no fight.

[RDJ]

I merely pointed out all the facts are not broadcast to allow informed and rational understanding. Sure others have it worse, some better but why on earth would you not attempt to retain what you have. I guess you would take worse conditions and less money for more work to do the same tasks you have for some time with no fight.

No, that's not what you merely did.

And you guess wrong. If conditions worsen and the bosses wanted to pay me less - I would make a decision about whether I should stay or go, and that would be based on what I could get elsewhere. If conditions are worse everywhere then that would be a big factor to warrant staying.

What many of us do not do is throw our toys out of the cot and go on strike and affect a lot of other people's livelihoods in pursuit of the unattainable - to keep the indefensible and wind back the clock.

[Berries]

Just wonder how you would like to work their shifts, in the conditions they sometimes work.

What, like in the rain while sitting in a crane? Must be a right bastard.

[JMemonic]

No, that's not what you merely did.

And you guess wrong. If conditions worsen and the bosses wanted to pay me less - I would make a decision about whether I should stay or go, and that would be based on what I could get elsewhere. If conditions are worse everywhere then that would be a big factor to warrant staying.

What many of us do not do is throw our toys out of the cot and go on strike and affect a lot of other people's livelihoods in pursuit of the unattainable - to keep the indefensible and wind back the clock.

The thing is for a lot of these guys they could easily join the great exodus and earn more, sometimes the only action available in a one sided negotiation is industrial action, have you asked any watersider if they really want to affect your livelihood?

Many of those whinging about the effects have no real idea the potential for a rationalization in the port industry would have on them, simply NZ does not need as many ports as we have, Tauranga is possibly better situated to supply the central and up of the north island, many of the goods sold in Auckland now are coming in through that port as shipping lines have that as a a preferred port, these containers are then loaded on a vessel traveling from there to AKL or shipped via trucks.

Oh and if their job looks so dam good to you or anyone else and the new terms and conditions are something you are prepared to accept there is about 300 jobs going, get in there and apply.

Seriously though how does their actions directly affect you? Or are you just making guesses as to the external implications. These alterations proposed are potentially only the start of changes, downstream there could be a number of changes.

Again the information available to most is only what has been in the media, you don't think POA hasn't spent good money to ensure its release is designed to make their position seem saintly and the watersiders evil? There are bound to be faults on both side, however POA has more money and media aware advertising agencies in its employ to get their message out in a format that makes the general public admire them for standing up to the nasty greedy workers.

[JMemonic]

What, like in the rain while sitting in a crane? Must be a right bastard.

Yeah must be, when you have to maneuver swinging containers in slotted ship that is swaying on a swell, shit that's so easy, guess what, you think its easy apply for the job just remember you wont start out in a crane, most likely lashing on the deck in the rain and wind, hopeful the crane driver knows what the hell they are doing and wont drop the box on top of you.

[RDJ]

Oh and if their job looks so dam good to you or anyone else and the new terms and conditions are something you are prepared to accept there is about 300 jobs going, get in there and apply.

Don't you get tired of constructing straw men to argue with? I am not after their job; they had the option to keep it if they wanted it. They (or their leadership) appear not to value it. Game over for them... and sadly, the likelihood they and their families will earn as well again as they could have kept earning, is low. People who bite the hand that feeds should not pretend surprise when the hand stops wanting to feed them.

[awayatc]

Yeah fuck the workers...
fuck all people while you are at it...
the share holders are the only ones that matter....
all us dum fucks should just accept that and roll over.
Our only purpose is to serve the chosen few.
Be thankfull you are allowed to work at all
be gratefull for all the crumbs you get.
Full time work?
Don't call us,
we will call you......

[Robert Taylor]

Brazen greed ( and thats what it is ) is unacceptable at any level of society. Attempts are made to justify why these ''workers'' are so overpaid but such an argument can be applied to many vocations.

[RDJ]

Yeah fuck the workers...
fuck all people while you are at it...
the share holders are the only ones that matter....
all us dum fucks should just accept that and roll over.
Our only purpose is to serve the chosen few.
Be thankfull you are allowed to work at all
be gratefull for all the crumbs you get.
Full time work?
Don't call us,
we will call you......

One can certainly appreciate, based on your views above, why it is that jobs can be harder for some people to get and keep, than others. But hey, if you don't like depending on others for your livelihood, why not work for yourself or start a business and be successful? then you can do as you please - always assuming someone wants to buy your product / labor. No-one is stopping you from being an employer instead of an employee