Ports of Auckland

[Zedder]

Jealous are you?
I get 4 weeks holidays and 15 days sick leave per year - all achieved by the unions - I believe in Germany it's 6 weeks paid leave (I may be wrong there)
Seems that a lot of people on here don't earn very much...
They seem happy to accept payment for jobs that, in real terms, have been decreasing for years...
So...do they try and boost their earnings - work out better wages and conditions with their employers, or for their employees....
or are they happy to accept their miserable incomes for the amount of work they consider they do? Seems like it to me - and woe betide any jobs that still have a strong union which has got better pay and conditions for their members. Obviously they are all lazy fucks getting shit loads of money for fuck all work and deserve to be brought down to our level - or lower - better still - let the lazy overpaid fucks go on the dole, then we can really get stuck into them!
Everything you read in the paper is true....every release from the Port Authorities is true because they have the power so it must be so! Every spin of the government must be right because that nice John Key (who has made lots of money) says so!

Do any of you guys ever step back and look at yourselves.....ever seek out all the information available on a topic before committing your mouths to print? Or is everything judged on old, outdated false misconceptions because once you saw something that might have agreed with the viewpoint being put across!
Paul has every right to be concerned about his perception of this situation, because it's a classic "destroy the unions tactic" used by Governments and big business the world over - manufacture a crisis, have the media spin it all in their favour utilising the public's antipathy towards unions, feeding false, misleading or malicious information to all their friendly outlets and try and whip up a public storm that results in them getting their objectives. This current government has used it very successfully in the past term on several occasions. So have all the Gov.s before!
- I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion. - Thomas Jefferson

A fully informed society is one that is not easily lead - NZ society (as most around the world, alas), are woefully informed and easily lead - like a bull by rope through the ring in it's nose! And so it is in this case (just one of many a.t.m.)

On strike - They were locked out by management for wanting to negotiate management demands - then sacked! Rather a different thing!

Thanks for your perspective SPman. However, I don't need the media spin to know that Ports of Auckland and it's outdated unionised labour model doesn't work compared with that of the partially privatised Tauranga Port and it's happy workers.

[short-circuit]

Thanks for your perspective SPman. However, I don't need the media spin to know that Ports of Auckland and it's outdated unionised labour model doesn't work compared with that of the partially privatised Tauranga Port and it's happy workers.

Yeah - cause you saw it on the news eh?

[Robert Taylor]

There is a reason why we needed to invent Unions.....it was because of the Employers.

So are you inferring that all employers are bad?

Suffice to say there are plenty of employers with small businesses that would love the take home pay and often lazy hours of those port ''workers''. There are plenty of companies that recently have suffered delays in getting freight also.

[Zedder]

Yeah - cause you saw it on the news eh?

No, because I wrote that I don't need the media spin remember. I've met people who work there and also, if you'd like to check out Port of Tauranga's web site, you'll see what I mean.

[davereid]

So are you inferring that all employers are bad?

Suffice to say there are plenty of employers with small businesses that would love the take home pay and often lazy hours of those port ''workers''. There are plenty of companies that recently have suffered delays in getting freight also.

I have been an employer, and struggled with tardy staff, that never overdid a days work. I have had some great employees as well.

Employers are the same. Some see the only focus of business as being return to shareholders, even if that meant treating staff terribly.

We have seen in history, (not always ancient history either), that employers will take slaves if thats what they need to turn a profit. And we have seen Unions close the rail ferry for the Xmas holidays because the chocolate biscuits at smoko had been switched for a home brand.

Both sides can overstep the mark in the blink of an eye.

But the balance has moved. I'm not personally comfortable with our direction. Profit is a great word. But so is society.

[Robert Taylor]

I have been an employer, and struggled with tardy staff, that never overdid a days work. I have had some great employees as well.

Employers are the same. Some see the only focus of business as being return to shareholders, even if that meant treating staff terribly.

We have seen in history, (not always ancient history either), that employers will take slaves if thats what they need to turn a profit. And we have seen Unions close the rail ferry for the Xmas holidays because the chocolate biscuits at smoko had been switched for a home brand.

Both sides can overstep the mark in the blink of an eye.

But the balance has moved. I'm not personally comfortable with our direction. Profit is a great word. But so is society.

Exactly, the balance has to be right. No argument there.

[Oblivion]

Even watching news reports on this, I'm still confused about this. Can someone explain how this started and why are they striking?

[tri boy]

I bet none of those "overpaid slackers"have Flash Houses/Holiday Baches in Flash areas/Large share portfolios/Umteen Rental properties.

But, I bet mangament/media hotshots and spin doctors do.
So who REALLY is overpaid, and slackers..............

[trustme]

Even watching news reports on this, I'm still confused about this. Can someone explain how this started and why are they striking?

In simple terms the port workers work shifts that may not coincide particularly well with the arrival of vessels hence they work on average 28 hrs in their 40 hour week. Management want more flexibility in the working roster so the port workers more than 28 hrs in the 40 hr week.

My first experience with POA was over 30 years ago.As a complete newb I was sent down to deliver a container of Squash. I got there about 2.00pm & joined the queue out on Quay St, I gave up at 8.00pm as I was miles from the gates & the port closed at 10.
Next morning I was there at 5.00AM , 3rd truck from the gate. they ran a booking system where we all stood in an office at 7.30 & drivers booked in. I booked in 3rd,with probably 100 behind me, the arsehole booking officer looks at me.
" Been here before "
" Nope "
" Well you can fuck off to the back of the queue "
I was dumb struck , I bloody near cried, you could not argue with anyone on the wharf or you could get blacked
An OD who knew me came to my rescue
" If he was keen enough to get up at some ridiculous hour to get here first there is no way you are doing that,this is bullshit, I'll help him through , it won't be a problem "
That OD is still my mate

30 years on I run the odd truck, we will not cart off the AK wharf, it is not worth the hassle. If I need boxes on or off I get another company to run them.

On the other hand about 18 months ago we put a large volume of freight through Tauranga including a considerable amount of break bulk or over dimension cargo. Easy peasy , the port company, stevedores & port workers could not have been more helpful.

POA is a pain in the arse to deal with, inflexible arseholes. Tauranga is a dream in comparison. No wonder Maersk got the shits

Something had to change at POA, it can't carry on with the same old same old.

[Winston001]

I bet none of those "overpaid slackers"have Flash Houses/Holiday Baches in Flash areas/Large share portfolios/Umteen Rental properties.

But, I bet mangament/media hotshots and spin doctors do.
So who REALLY is overpaid, and slackers..............

I wouldn't be so certain. Aeons ago when I worked in the freezing works quite a few other workers owned rental houses or small farms which they were paying off with the high wages we earned. These guys kept quiet about their hopes and efforts because saving your wages and improving your family's life provoked envy from others.

It doesn't matter whether you are a worker or a manager - its what you do with your earnings that counts in the long term. There are plenty of switched-on workers - they just keep their heads down.

[puddytat]

So are you inferring that all employers are bad?

Suffice to say there are plenty of employers with small businesses that would love the take home pay and often lazy hours of those port ''workers''. There are plenty of companies that recently have suffered delays in getting freight also.

No ,not at all Robert...im generalising.I have been happy with all my Bosses personally.
But least we forget it did take way back when , the workers to unite & stand up as an organisation to stop sweat shops, & achieve the things like an 8 hr day (yeah I know most do more 'cause they have to pay the bills associated with modern living) sick leave etc.....
Just look at countires where the unions are non-existant,& the virtual slavery that comes with it. Free market capatalism is really a double edged sword. And its big business that weilds it.
Most small & medium size business are pretty much in the (cough) same boat as " the workers" (I mean all). They are genuinely struggling to keep their heads above water......because they are both having to compete with Global Big business. People are secondary or collateral damage to them. And the govts & media are in their pockets,or belong to the same club,creed,religion or wear the same tie.

[Robert Taylor]

I bet none of those "overpaid slackers"have Flash Houses/Holiday Baches in Flash areas/Large share portfolios/Umteen Rental properties.

But, I bet mangament/media hotshots and spin doctors do.
So who REALLY is overpaid, and slackers..............

North Korea is apparently an equal society modelled on everyone being equal, a fine example of communism at work

[pete376403]

North Korea is apparently an equal society modelled on everyone being equal, a fine example of communism at work

Or perhaps North Korea is actually the ultimate capitalist state, run by, and for the benefit of Kim Family Industries, with millions of underpaid, unrepresented worker/slaves.

[Robert Taylor]

No ,not at all Robert...im generalising.I have been happy with all my Bosses personally.
But least we forget it did take way back when , the workers to unite & stand up as an organisation to stop sweat shops, & achieve the things like an 8 hr day (yeah I know most do more 'cause they have to pay the bills associated with modern living) sick leave etc.....
Just look at countires where the unions are non-existant,& the virtual slavery that comes with it. Free market capatalism is really a double edged sword. And its big business that weilds it.
Most small & medium size business are pretty much in the (cough) same boat as " the workers" (I mean all). They are genuinely struggling to keep their heads above water......because they are both having to compete with Global Big business. People are secondary or collateral damage to them. And the govts & media are in their pockets,or belong to the same club,creed,religion or wear the same tie.

I concur almost totally. My politics are firmly tory but I have issue with a totally unregulated free market, as much as I have issue with hardline unionists with unreasonable expectations. We are all in effect hypocites because the affordable clothes we wear on our backs stuff the coffers of multinationals whilst the sweatshop workers who assemble these clothes work stupidly long hours and earn a pittance. Human nature albeit it a fatcat CEO or a raving unionist is not too pretty.
I am not against anyone getting ahead as long as its productive, is not brazen speculation or GREED and is ethical
Moreover some of the posts that I see here are very much an ''us and them'' mentality.
In my small world I see all walks of life, they recieve( and jolly well should do )the same level of respect as customers. So long as they dont have bitter levels of ''baggage.''

[puddytat]

I dont think anyone is linking unions to communism....maybe socialism though. And I Sir, concour almost totally with you Robert!