Sad P addicts and thier dealers

[Big Dave]

I have drawn my line in the sand and I am standing firmly on my side of it.

I stand on the other side.
Prohibition of anything has never worked.
Make pot and other low grade recreational drugs government controlled - tax the daylights out of them and use what would be a huge revenue stream for education, councelling, anti drug propaganda, health support and all the other issues.

I also know I'm pissing in the wind - but there a millions incarcerated for drug offences. That plan's working perfectly.

The Dutch way seems to work.

[Storm]

Drugs themselves don't scare me, but our attitude as a community to them does.

There are some huge double standards in the way we deal with things that we put into our bodies:

Food and product labelling -- we get hung up on frivolous nonsense like "E" numbers, whether or not it contains GM, what country it came from and whether or not it was made by underage children in the third world to the point of hysteria.

"Recreational drugs" -- People seem to think "What harm does it do?" Even if it's sold by somebody who is dodgier than dodgy, and manufactured in a Taita garage by somebody who doesn't know the difference between alcohol and albumin or the boiling point of water.

OK, some of us may have casually huffed a bit of dac in our past. Youthful curiosity, too pissed to know any better, yada yada yada. But our world has moved on and the whole drug culture scene is incredibly insidious, sophisticated and organised now. And the selection of available drugs is mind-numbing in every sense of the word. Even the quality of common-or-garden dac has changed, given several decades of selection pressure and innovative plant breeding.

People who pimp drugs are criminals. If you associate with them, you condone their activities. They are destroying lives and families.

And people wonder why I am opposed to legalising cannibis and other "recreational" drugs (including "party" pills). I have drawn my line in the sand and I am standing firmly on my side of it.

You're not the only one on that side of the line

[Wolf]

Here's a thought. Legalise everything. All the drugs you could want from a Pharmacy, E, P, Smack, you name it. Because it's made by a trusty multi-national it'll be quality controlled. Legalisation will kill the blackmarket (or at least make it less attractive).
The Govt will tax it to pay for medical costs. Overdoses will be infrequent because of known strengths and no impurities in the goods.
Because prohibition sure as hell hasn't worked.

Ah, I see you are a proponent of "Evolution in Action" - the really dumb ones get to remove themselves and their offspring from the gene pool

I've got mates from the Netherlands who've gone back for a holiday and reckon the place has gone to shit from loosening the drug restrictions.

Prohibition of alcohol caused more problems where it was enacted than it solved - especially in the USA. There are major problems associated with prohibition of anything, but there are also problems with allowing them, too - gangs of organised criminals do not control the supply of alcohol in this country and war amongst themselves or with the police but we have alcoholism, drunken driving - causing deaths and maiming - alcohol-related abuse, suicide and a plethora of other problems.

Gangs do control drug supplies - and we have problems with gang crime in addition to the social problems of the drug (drug-induced assaults, theft to support the habit, suicides etc)

There is no solution - prohibit or permit, there will always be problems.

[MSTRS:Me]

Here's a thought. Legalise everything. All the drugs you could want from a Pharmacy, E, P, Smack, you name it. Because it's made by a trusty multi-national it'll be quality controlled. Legalisation will kill the blackmarket (or at least make it less attractive).
The Govt will tax it to pay for medical costs. Overdoses will be infrequent because of known strengths and no impurities in the goods.
Because prohibition sure as hell hasn't worked.

I see the appeal. Was done with alcamahol in the 30's & we sure don't have any problems associated with that drug now.

[mikey]

And people wonder why I am opposed to legalising cannibis and other "recreational" drugs (including "party" pills). I have drawn my line in the sand and I am standing firmly on my side of it.

until the tide comes up an washes it away.............

[Big Dave]

I've got mates from the Netherlands who've gone back for a holiday and reckon the place has gone to shit from loosening the drug restrictions.
.

And I have some who say the opposite.

[placidfemme]

Hey Placid. Since your exflatmate obviously thinks you are 'cool' with the P thing, what will you do when you are invited to the next one??

No, he knows I'm not into it, and he also knows I don't like it. When he picked us up to take us to the BBQ we were talking about clubbing and the conversation moved to a mate we both knew and he commented on how this guy now only goes clubbing when he takes P, and I stated that P users were dumb and screwing up thier lives... he went kinda quiet, but I didn't really notice it until thinking back...

Then when the P pipe was being passed around he gave me a sheepish look and said "I don't do this often" (Which I don't believe). Then the next day when he was taking us home he tried to touch on the subject... like I said I lived with him for 2 years so he knows without asking that I wouldn't be keen on that kinda thing.

I'll still see him now and then, and I'll try to talk him around to not smoking P again... but it's his choice... and I don't like forcing my opinions on people... and as far as this certain friend goes, he knows I don't agree with what he's doing, but he also knows that if he ever decides to sort his shit out I'll be there for him 100%

But as far as social gatherings go with him and his partner... that won't be happening again unless Sam and I both have our own transport and we're free to leave as soon as the dodgy stuff starts. But I doubt that will be often as Sam doesn't wanna have anything to do with him again... which is fair enough

[MSTRS:Me]

No, he knows I'm not into it, and he also knows I don't like it. When he picked us up to take us to the BBQ we were talking about clubbing and the conversation moved to a mate we both knew and he commented on how this guy now only goes clubbing when he takes P, and I stated that P users were dumb and screwing up thier lives... he went kinda quiet, but I didn't really notice it until thinking back...

Then when the P pipe was being passed around he gave me a sheepish look and said "I don't do this often" (Which I don't believe). Then the next day when he was taking us home he tried to touch on the subject... like I said I lived with him for 2 years so he knows without asking that I wouldn't be keen on that kinda thing.

I'll still see him now and then, and I'll try to talk him around to not smoking P again... but it's his choice... and I don't like forcing my opinions on people... and as far as this certain friend goes, he knows I don't agree with what he's doing, but he also knows that if he ever decides to sort his shit out I'll be there for him 100%

But as far as social gatherings go with him and his partner... that won't be happening again unless Sam and I both have our own transport and we're free to leave as soon as the dodgy stuff starts. But I doubt that will be often as Sam doesn't wanna have anything to do with him again... which is fair enough

It was a loaded question I know, and 'I am not my brother's keeper' and all that. BUT as Hitcher said, this is a major social problem that won't go away until society actually gets involved with containing it. By saying nothing (as such) you lend tacit approval to continuation of the problem. A P house was discovered only 10 houses away from me in my street and none of us had any idea until it was busted. The house was so badly contaminated that it had to be pulled down. State house occupied by ex-con beneficiaries. WE ALL PAY over and over for that. Make a stand peoples.

[placidfemme]

It was a loaded question I know, and 'I am not my brother's keeper' and all that. BUT as Hitcher said, this is a major social problem that won't go away until society actually gets involved with containing it. By saying nothing (as such) you lend tacit approval to continuation of the problem. A P house was discovered only 10 houses away from me in my street and none of us had any idea until it was busted. The house was so badly contaminated that it had to be pulled down. State house occupied by ex-con beneficiaries. WE ALL PAY over and over for that. Make a stand peoples.

Yeah I know what your saying... Unfortunatly the whole "P is bad for you, you should stop" is about as effective as "Motorbikes are dangerous, they can kill you" (Just an example, I know the comparison is totally different). The sad fact is, with people who take P (and proberly most other bad things) can't be talked out of it, exspecially if it is addictive, I don't know how long my friend (not mentioning his name for my safety not his) has been using P, or how often he does it, but I'm sure he knows the dangers of taking it. He knows I don't approve, and if he still has some of the qualitys he used to have, then he'll also know that in future I won't be around him if he takes it, and that if it happens again chances are all contact will be cut and we won't talk anymore...

I'm guessing he has already lost a few friends because of it. Another mate of mine that I meet through him mentioned a while ago that they don't talk anymore because of something my P using friend was doing that he didn't like. At the time I thought he was talking about my P friends new girlfriend who he mentioned was a junkie... but I didn't think my friend was invloved with that...

I don't have an issue with all drugs... Alcohol (a drug in my eyes) is fine, marijuana is fine too. But all other drugs... are a HUGE no no in my books...

[Lou Girardin]

I see the appeal. Was done with alcamahol in the 30's & we sure don't have any problems associated with that drug now.

Yeah yeah, I know. But prohibition didn't stop drinking. Did it?

[Hitcher]

Fancy invoking the Dutch to sink my argument! I am not sure as to whether their society is more enlightened or mature than ours. But ours is having difficulty coping with the onslaught of addictive, mind-altering substances. We have teenagers addicted to this shit. We have people significantly under the influence committing hienous murders. Sorry. I am afraid that I don't agree with the view that individuals have the right to choose and that our society should remove all controls.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yeah I know what your saying... Unfortunatly the whole "P is bad for you, you should stop" is about as effective as "Motorbikes are dangerous, they can kill you" (Just an example, I know the comparison is totally different). The sad fact is, with people who take P (and proberly most other bad things) can't be talked out of it, exspecially if it is addictive,

I don't have an issue with all drugs... Alcohol (a drug in my eyes) is fine, marijuana is fine too. But all other drugs... are a HUGE no no in my books...

I am NOT suggesting that you give your friend a stern talking-to. P is an insidious, vile, lethal drug. It will not be stopped by being gentle & caring.

[placidfemme]

I think the best option concerning myself is to stop socialising with him... which is a shame because he is/was seriously one my best friends I guess I should just let it be and see what happens in the future...

[Big Dave]

Fancy invoking the Dutch to sink my argument! I am not sure as to whether their society is more enlightened or mature than ours. But ours is having difficulty coping with the onslaught of addictive, mind-altering substances. We have teenagers addicted to this shit. We have people significantly under the influence committing hienous murders. Sorry. I am afraid that I don't agree with the view that individuals have the right to choose and that our society should remove all controls.

I agree with you entirely on Class A's. My 'line' is just a bit further up the sand.

[Biff]

Sorry to hear the sad story about your in-law Six.

PF - You must have felt sooooo uncomfortable. I once left a party because some prat was smoking Heroin.

I'd never heard of 'P' before coming here. I'm not even sure if there's anything quite like it in the UK. Crack, angel dust etc yeah - but P - I don't think so. But from what I've heard it is evil shit, and should never be tried, even if you're sure it'll be "just the once". I was only told a story a week or so by a guy whose sister tried it, liked it, did some more, and within a week had stolen her fathers cash point card and cleaned out her bank account. She;s now on the run I think. Sad, so very sad.

Pot - ok, nothing wrong with pot IMO. Especially for a 'mature' individual who rarely drinks, may occasionaly have a smoke in order to relax, and holds down a decent job. .

But P - evil, nasty. It's up there with heroin as the bottom of the barrel in terms of illegal drugs IMO, and appears to be used by a fked up circle of people, with far too many issues and liabilities for my liking