Which would you prefer, gas, tig?

[Brian d marge]

Yes ummming, and ahhhing ,,,

need to stick metal together, I have a crude arc set for sticking stuff together in a rough sort of way ( benches , that kind of stuff

but need to expand , as I have some work coming up that needs a pretty and delicate weld on stuff less than 2mm

I like gas, but here in Japan the botttles may be a problem , ( I will have to go talk to the council, or someone who knows, ...might be a pain )

Mig ...ababa zappa baby, easy but not as flexible as gas

Tig , not so exerienced , but I can regrind the tip ..as have LOTS of experience at that


oh,,,and

a 3d Scanner , ( i will get this soon, but isnt urgent ,,,)

a small 3d printer , have been released but Im holding back to see how they sell....


In a nut shell I sit behind a computer , but sometimes I have to fabricate stuff ,, like excuses to the wife as to my whereabouts last night

feelings anyone

Stephen

[MSTRS:Me]

I'm sorry, but if you want an alibi, it will cost you...

Can't help on the welding front though.

[unstuck]

Had some good results with mig, arc is good for the heavier stuff I do, only had 1 go with a tig and was impressed. As for finding excuses to tell the wife, do what I do, tell her to get in the kitchen and cook some fucking eggs, then go sleep in your mancave.

[DEATH_INC.]

What type of metal are you trying to join? It makes a difference.
Tig is the slowest, but you can weld pretty much everything (with the right tips, filler and gas) with it, and once ya master it it's very neat and tidy.

I prefer oxy-acetylene for light gauge steel, fast and tidy once you get the hang of it, and you can braze/silphos/solder/heat/cut etc with it.

Mig is fast and rough (tho with a lot of practice can be fairly tidy), good for using on other peoples stuff.

Arc for anything that requires strength, and is 3mm+ thick. Use the appropriate rods/preheating etc.

[Madness]

feelings anyone

Stephen

Feeling fine thanks Stephen.

TIG uses a sheilding gas as does MIG. Non-flammable types of gas but pressurised none the less, FWIW.

[Ocean1]

Anything under 3mm use a TIG. No question.

Get one with pulse mode and learn to use it.

Anything over 3mm is clasified as "heavy" or "structural", that's MIG country, and ideally someone else's job.

[bogan]

Anything under 3mm use a TIG. No question.

Get one with pulse mode and learn to use it.

Anything over 3mm is clasified as "heavy" or "structural", that's MIG country, and ideally someone else's job.

I dunno, most MIGs will go down to 2mm and still do nice welds, TIGing is just so damn time consuming, and the gas is the most expensive too.

[Ocean1]

I dunno, most MIGs will go down to 2mm and still do nice welds, TIGing is just so damn time consuming, and the gas is the most expensive too.

A MIG is a production tool. You can make it work for most jobs, but it's rarely pretty.

A TIG might be slower in most instances but that translates to control. An experienced welder makes art with a TIG.

The gas is expensive, but you don't use much. A while ago a guy from a big specialist engineering contractor showed me an invoice from BOC for a size G argon bottle: $64

I pay $300. If you're buying less than a couple of grand a month you'll be paying $400

BOC are not my favourite people.

[schrodingers cat]

Here we go again.

I am a trade qualified fitter welder with extensive experience in all of the major metal joining methods AND a great deal of motorsport experience up to and including F1


Metal joining methods are classified by the heat range that you are working within
Soft soldering - temp dependent on lead content
Hard soldering - includes Ezyflo, Silfos etc
Brazing (Bronze welding is a type of brazing)

These first three methods have a disimilar filler wire and rely on intergranular cohesion. The parent metal is does not reach a fluid state

Welding, by definition, requires the melting of the parent metal and application of similar filler wire.

The most versatile heat source, hands down is gas. Whether Oxy/Acelylene or Oxy/LPG or Butane. Fuel source/air is ok for lower temp work but struggles to generate enough energy to melt most metals
The drawback with gas is that the amount of heat transferred to the job can be hard to control. There are ways and means however.

TIG or Heliarc is a close cousin. The heat source comes from an electrical arc between the workpiece and a non consumable tungsten(alloy) electrode sheilded by a inert gas - usually Argon or Helium.
It requires skill and correct understanding of process and technique.
Alloys where one of the alloying components has a significantly lower melting point than the other causes problems (i.e. Bronze which is a mix of zinc and copper) The metal with the lower melting point burns and contaminates the electrode which in turn hurts the integrity of the weld.
Some metals require an inert gas sheild to BOTH sides of the join and some exotics benifit from being welded in a totally inert box.
On the plus side the heat source is able to be carefully controlled and done properly looks VERY PRETTY

Arc welding or MMA (manual metal arc) to give it its correct name is still a very valid method. The ability to control the arc and weld pool, and to introduce compounds into the weld pool from the flux covering means that a wide variety of very clever rods are availible. It is an ideal method for joining metals in the great outdoors but ot so good for joining metal under 2mm

MIG is the bastard cousin of MMA. THe arc is created between the filler wire and sheilded by an inert gas - usually an argon mix or CO2.
Any fool can pull the trigger. Plenty of fools do.
It is very very easy with MIG to lay a weld on top of the parent metal without actually joining it.

The problem is that a mm square of weld metal can hold around 33kg. So a totally shit weld will hold bits together.

My advice?. Learn to gas weld PROPERLY- from someone who knows shit. And when you learn how complex the whole field is, put your DIY ego in the box and pay someone to stick the critical stuff together. A mig can be a handy tool but understand its limitations

Most amateur welds are a serie of stress raisers waiting to crack and fail

Its nice to learn new things but seriously - ask yourself how many hours of labour you could buy for the price of all that gear?



Peace all.

[Brian d marge]

A MIG is a production tool. You can make it work for most jobs, but it's rarely pretty.

A TIG might be slower in most instances but that translates to control. An experienced welder makes art with a TIG.

The gas is expensive, but you don't use much. A while ago a guy from a big specialist engineering contractor showed me an invoice from BOC for a size G argon bottle: $64

I pay $300. If you're buying less than a couple of grand a month you'll be paying $400

BOC are not my favourite people.

Nor were BOC my most favorite companies,

I have had more experience with gas, and I can do a whole range of other stuff , but yes Tig does do some really nice work, ( but Im not that experienced )

Mig , ,,,rough but easy and I have stitched some really thin metal together ...

my feelings are IF getting the gas here is no problem, then gas. If difficult then tig....last resort mig and flux cored

oh and some new glasses ,,,,,,cant see shyt with these...

Thanks for the input

Stephen

[bogan]

A MIG is a production tool. You can make it work for most jobs, but it's rarely pretty.

A TIG might be slower in most instances but that translates to control. An experienced welder makes art with a TIG.

The gas is expensive, but you don't use much. A while ago a guy from a big specialist engineering contractor showed me an invoice from BOC for a size G argon bottle: $64

I pay $300. If you're buying less than a couple of grand a month you'll be paying $400

BOC are not my favourite people.

Fookin hell that is a big price difference! We seem to rip through gas on my flatmates tig, though it has the smallest gas bottle I've seen on a welder yet, still costs 150 to refill though.

Yeh, I'm just still a little pissy after tig welding up a 3m garden gate, chasing the joins around that bastard was not fun.

[Ocean1]

Its nice to learn new things but seriously - ask yourself how many hours of labour you could buy for the price of all that gear?

Under 40.
You’re right, most amateurs will never be as good as most professionals, and 40 Hrs won’t teach them much. But the point is it’s his money, and he’s got the right to spend it how he wants. And if he ends up doing some nice work he’ll probably consider the time and money well spent.
I did.

Nor were BOC my most favorite companies,

The only company I know of with an actual policy of increasing charges annually. Justifiable or not.

Monopolies. Get me gun.

Yeh, I'm just still a little pissy after tig welding up a 3m garden gate, chasing the joins around that bastard was not fun.

Job for a mate was it?

The one you've got to watch out for is the old dude from up the road who appears at your workshop with a well and truely fuckt lawn mower wanting you to weld a few patches on it.

[bogan]

Job for a mate was it?

The one you've got to watch out for is the old dude from up the road who appears at your workshop with a well and truely fuckt lawn mower wanting you to weld a few patches on it.

Job for a flatmate, so at least I get to see the quality work.

Yeh done that one before, you end up welding a few patches of his mower onto the new one you just made for him

[schrodingers cat]

But the point is it’s his money, and he’s got the right to spend it how he wants. And if he ends up doing some nice work he’ll probably consider the time and money well spent.

I agree in principle. Unfortunatly the difference between trecherous and superlative is largely indistinguishable. And a lot of 'only average' is in the market place.

Anyway, enough beating my head against a wall. I have my toys at home these days and have no need to deal with the great unwashed

[Motu]

Learning to gas weld is the start, controlling a weld with heat in one hand and filler in the other is an easier transfer to TIG. MIG is great for sticking stuff together - weld a 10mm rod onto a piece of exhaust tubing ? no problem. With an auto helmet, hold the rod onto the pipe with one hand and weld it into place - best workshop tool ever. As has been said, real easy to do a nice looking weak weld. With an arc welder you can do a real shitty looking but stronger weld.

I have arc, gas and MIG at home - I'd prefer to ditch the MIG and get a TIG. But I have a Henrob torch for the gas set....theoretically capable of a bit more than a normal gas torch.

Bottles...oh yeah, everyone has a bad story about BOC. I won't waste my time telling you mine, they are just arseholes.