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Thread: Noise testing of race bikes - what's the answer?

  1. #76
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    I was working for a firm commissioning chillers, council ruling was 55 Db at the boundary. The chillers were rated at 55 10 metres Free Field, which as the name suggests is in an open field.
    The site was surrounded by buildings and lots of concrete, we struggled to get it under 65DB . As I understand it every 3 db is twice as loud. We had a firm called Noise Control Services do the tests and give a report, spent lots and lots of time lead lagging the compressors and pipework......
    Interesting that it was quite weather dependent , low cloud, wind direction, background noise. Testing a vehicle adds in distance, speed, engine revs , background wind noise, operator experience, yet they can just turn up , take a reading and shut the event down.
    It would be like trying to keep to a speed limit with no speedo and getting busted for exceeding the speed limit.
    My bike had nothing inside the " muffler' apart from a plate with lots of holes drilled in it and its very quiet......mystery.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by budda View Post
    I understand your thought process here Biggles, the fact is that what other outfits get away with ( OR get done for ) has nothing at all to do with us as a group. Whoever told you this was fair was bullshitting you man.

    We, as a group, are bound by the rules in place at the venues we hire to race on - SIMPLE

    If we continually go over their limit, we will not be able to race there any more - AGAIN, BASIC SIMPLE FACTS

    If we all do what we can re our OWN bikes, the problem is mostly solved - even SIMPLER TO UNDERSTAND

    And in the end, if preventing those who cant be arsed quietening their bike down to legal levels from screwing the rest of us over , by stopping them riding at OUR events, so be it ..........
    I hear ya, but.......

    The thing that pisses me off is the complete lack of consistency.

    Raced exactly the same bike there (Pukey) a couple of months earlier and it was fine (yes, noise people were present as couple of guys got stung)
    Race up and down the country - same bike - fine.
    I get the warning in the Q1 (last round @ Pukey) - then wedge the gadget in there (ie - make the effort to remedy the issue), ask to go out for a test run to see if its under the dB cut-off.
    Get permission, head out and get told it's fine.
    Then race 1 comes around.... Black flag, 2nd violation, - see ya.

    Where's the consistency?????

    I'm not knocking the club - they're a bunch of good pricks (especially that Kiwi Graham chap )

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tee View Post
    I hear ya, but.......

    The thing that pisses me off is the complete lack of consistency.

    Raced exactly the same bike there (Pukey) a couple of months earlier and it was fine (yes, noise people were present as couple of guys got stung)
    Race up and down the country - same bike - fine.
    I get the warning in the Q1 (last round @ Pukey) - then wedge the gadget in there (ie - make the effort to remedy the issue), ask to go out for a test run to see if its under the dB cut-off.
    Get permission, head out and get told it's fine.
    Then race 1 comes around.... Black flag, 2nd violation, - see ya.

    Where's the consistency?????

    I'm not knocking the club - they're a bunch of good pricks (especially that Kiwi Graham chap )
    By gadget do you mean baffle ? Had it come loose ? Any change in potential error factors I have raised earlier? Were you near any other bike when you were tested during the race and black flagged ? (Background noise error)
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  4. #79
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    Because of the inconsistency of test conditions, slight differences in equipment and operators, procedures etc the only way that people can guarantee they're going to be able to race at any meeting is to set their bikes up so they're quiet. From now on everyone is going to have to tune their bikes for quiet horsepower. It's not that difficult to do it just takes a bit more effort.

    The biggest problem is people don't like someone telling them they're not allowed to do something. That and change.

    The only sound I want to hear at a good volume on my bikes is the induction roar.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deano View Post
    By gadget do you mean baffle ? Had it come loose ? Any change in potential error factors I have raised earlier? Were you near any other bike when you were tested during the race and black flagged ? (Background noise error)
    It was the big insert (was a yoshimura one) like the one a couple of pages back that they use in the UK which is failsafe.....
    It was "screwed" in, no chance to come loose (was a good fit).

    Pretty sure there was no one right up my date.

    I got down to within 1dB of the limit.
    Was funny, my old man was there watching - he's an audio engineer (started out in Abbey Rd with the Beatles) with years in the industry.
    He said it's pretty hard for the human ear to even pick up a 1dB difference at that level - he started rambling on about mics and acoustics and lost me a bit.

    I'll be testing some stuff this weekend at T-Po, as I think I could be onto the problem and it might not be entirely exhaust related.........

    Will keep you in the loop

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by tee View Post
    It was the big insert (was a yoshimura one) like the one a couple of pages back that they use in the UK which is failsafe.....
    It was "screwed" in, no chance to come loose (was a good fit).

    Pretty sure there was no one right up my date.

    I got down to within 1dB of the limit.
    Was funny, my old man was there watching - he's an audio engineer (started out in Abbey Rd with the Beatles) with years in the industry.
    He said it's pretty hard for the human ear to even pick up a 1dB difference at that level - he started rambling on about mics and acoustics and lost me a bit.

    I'll be testing some stuff this weekend at T-Po, as I think I could be onto the problem and it might not be entirely exhaust related.........

    Will keep you in the loop
    You're just too bloody fast bro, the Doppler Effect is working against ya. Do us all a favour, slow down, and it'll be problem solved. Same goes for the rest of you noisy bastidges......some of us are trying to sleep in the pits ya know. Jeezus how hard can it be.....

    Seriously, it's weird that your realtively well muffled Beemer gets pinged but your RCM built GSXR1000 making similar horsepower at similar revs, complete with Q/S and the noisiest can known to mankind (Racefit growler) didn't. How does that work?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    Seriously, it's weird that your realtively well muffled Beemer gets pinged but your RCM built GSXR1000 making similar horsepower at similar revs, complete with Q/S and the noisiest can known to mankind (Racefit growler) didn't. How does that work?
    These BMWs don't make induction noise do they Spud ? I've never seen one fired in anger.
    A traffic cop in Lower Hutt city used to hound me in the mid sixties, trying to find why my YDS3 Yamaha made so much noise. He'd pull you over and study the mufflers while revving the shit out of it and scratching his head.
    Under load with WOT it made a great noise. Frosty still nights I could be heard for miles. LOL G.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by roogazza View Post
    These BMWs don't make induction noise do they Spud ? I've never seen one fired in anger.
    A traffic cop in Lower Hutt city used to hound me in the mid sixties, trying to find why my YDS3 Yamaha made so much noise. He'd pull you over and study the mufflers while revving the shit out of it and scratching his head.
    Under load with WOT it made a great noise. Frosty still nights I could be heard for miles. LOL G.
    Hiya Gaz, long time no hear mate. You sure it wasn't just you screaming "YEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAA!" when she came to the boil?

    Nah, I was stood right on the pit wall at Teretonga with the bikes howling along close to the pit wall due to the 30knot Southerly "breeze" and didn't really pick up any induction noise from any of the bikes. I think they're just unlucky with the Q/S "pop", if it's right opposite the dB meter they're in trouble. It's not ideal but a simple gearing change or awareness of where the meter is could avoid the problem?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    Hiya Gaz, long time no hear mate. You sure it wasn't just you screaming "YEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAA!" when she came to the boil?
    So you've met the wife then ? lol

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    Hiya Gaz, long time no hear mate. You sure it wasn't just you screaming "YEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAA!" when she came to the boil?

    Nah, I was stood right on the pit wall at Teretonga with the bikes howling along close to the pit wall due to the 30knot Southerly "breeze" and didn't really pick up any induction noise from any of the bikes. I think they're just unlucky with the Q/S "pop", if it's right opposite the dB meter they're in trouble. It's not ideal but a simple gearing change or awareness of where the meter is could avoid the problem?
    the degree to which the qs pop is a factor will also depend on which noise descriptor is being used to determine compliance ie the time weighting applied
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deano View Post
    the degree to which the qs pop is a factor will also depend on which noise descriptor is being used to determine compliance ie the time weighting applied
    Hmmm, we need to see exactly how these noise regs are worded then eh? You'd be the guru Deano but I'm guessing councils will have wording to the effect of either (levels are for example only) +105dB instantaneous peak or +99dB continuous for 3hours and it's game over?

    Fuggit, I've got a Q/S sitting at home and I'm too scared to fit the bloody thing now....

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    Hmmm, we need to see exactly how these noise regs are worded then eh? You'd be the guru Deano but I'm guessing councils will have wording to the effect of either (levels are for example only) +105dB instantaneous peak or +99dB continuous for 3hours and it's game over?

    Fuggit, I've got a Q/S sitting at home and I'm too scared to fit the bloody thing now....
    Here is the commissioners report for Western Springs.
    http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/coun...nersreport.pdf

    Here is the bit your probably interested in:
    8. The matters referred to in this paragraph are likely to be appropriate
    for the noise management plan. No racing car operating at the
    venue shall generate noise levels greater than 95 dB(A) Leq at any
    location around the track assessed at 25 metres. The assessment
    may be carried out at any time when the noise influence from any
    other racing will not significantly influence the measured value.
    The period of measurement will be for any 4 – 6 second period
    during which time the race car must pass the measurement location
    at no more than 25 metres and with the engine under near
    maximum load.
    The race car, when being tested, must be operating at a circulating
    speed within one second of the race car’s best qualifying lap times.
    Race cars, which the assessing officer determines have exhaust
    noise containing excessive backfiring, will have 3 dB(A) Leq added
    to the measured values before comparing the race car noise levels
    with the criterion level.
    The measurement location will provide an uninterrupted view to the
    race car exhaust outlet when the exhaust outlet will be facing an
    outside track measurement location.
    During a racing event day within one hour of the commencement of
    circuit events, the promoter will arrange 10 stationary noise checks
    on randomly chosen race cars when the race cars remain in the pit
    area. Where possible, the testing location should be screened
    from view from any nearby houses. The screening material must
    weigh at least 12 kg/m2 and must be twice the car length and 1.5
    times higher than the highest part of the roll cage. A building may
    be used to provide screening.
    The purpose of the test will be to identify cars that may be required
    to carry out formal testing on the circuit.
    A type 1 grade sound level meter will be placed within 525mm of
    any exhaust outlet.
    The engine of the race car will be revved to three-quarters of
    maximum engine power revs and held for a period of 2 – 5
    seconds. The noise level recorded will be the dB(A) Leq for the
    period.
    The test will be repeated three times and the arithmetic average of
    the recorded values reported. The noise level qualifying for a race
    car to be considered for formal circuit testing will be determined by
    correlation testing at a circuit but is expected to be in the order of
    120 dB(A) Leq.
    Owners of cars with stationary test noise levels greater than the
    criterion level will be provided with three options:
    1. Reduce the noise and re-test
    2. Request a full circuit test
    3. Not race at the event
    Any race car owner requesting a full circuit test and failing the test
    will be banned from the event .
    During the racing events any race car identified during racing as
    having significantly higher noise levels than the rest of the cars will
    be considered for a stationary test at least and if failing the first
    stationary test offered the same options described above.

  13. #88
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    I wonder if the below test form Western Springs could be appropriately applied to Motorcycles, so as to give some certainty before going onto the track of being able to stay on the track:
    A type 1 grade sound level meter will be placed within 525mm of
    any exhaust outlet.
    The engine of the race car will be revved to three-quarters of
    maximum engine power revs and held for a period of 2 – 5
    seconds. The noise level recorded will be the dB(A) Leq for the
    period.
    The test will be repeated three times and the arithmetic average of
    the recorded values reported. The noise level qualifying for a race
    car to be considered for formal circuit testing will be determined by
    correlation testing at a circuit but is expected to be in the order of
    120 dB(A) Leq.
    The other thing to note is the info I posted was the result of a case placed before the Environment court - meaning there should be osme legal precedence to go down this path if MNZ decided.

    The case itself involved Aucland City Council - so it was also bound by the court. All very complicated and murky at best.

  14. #89
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    Hey guys I'd like to make a suggestion. How about if we set a 90 dba. limit as a MNZ rule for all race bikes. Have it set in stone ASAP but effective as at 1/11/2012
    My reasoning being that summer racing is all but over so bikes have the winter to find the means to quieten down.
    It means that by being proactive there is little chance that a bike and by association a meeting can be shut down by whatever council.
    Unfortunately we have western springs showing a clear precident as to what can happen if you keep pushing the boundries.
    On that subject clearly there are venues were the PERCEIVED and actual dba levels are different.
    Maybee thought also needs to be put into how to muffle the perceived sound.
    By that I mean changes to the worst "sound tunnels" that might muffle the sound.
    As billy clearly pointed out --The problem aint going away and as much as we would love it not all of New zealand is made up of petrolheads -let alone bikers.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by FROSTY View Post
    Hey guys I'd like to make a suggestion. How about if we set a 90 dba. limit as a MNZ rule for all race bikes. Have it set in stone ASAP but effective as at 1/11/2012
    My reasoning being that summer racing is all but over so bikes have the winter to find the means to quieten down.
    It means that by being proactive there is little chance that a bike and by association a meeting can be shut down by whatever council.
    Unfortunately we have western springs showing a clear precident as to what can happen if you keep pushing the boundries.
    On that subject clearly there are venues were the PERCEIVED and actual dba levels are different.
    Maybee thought also needs to be put into how to muffle the perceived sound.
    By that I mean changes to the worst "sound tunnels" that might muffle the sound.
    As billy clearly pointed out --The problem aint going away and as much as we would love it not all of New zealand is made up of petrolheads -let alone bikers.
    Dunno 'bout Western Springs pushing the boundaries Frosty, it's more a case of people expecting the world to change for them rather than adapting to the world around them. Western Springs has been operating for nearly 80 years, yet folks move close to a very popular motorsport venue and then cause a rukus about the noise? Numpty's.

    From the reading I've done there were something like 70 objections from local residents around Western Springs outweighing a petition from 10's of thousands of speedway supporters. As a result we now have the following restrictions in place:

    "Noise levels are monitored from the start to the finish of each race. The levels must not exceed 90dBA L10 for 60 per cent of the total races on any night, and 88dBA L10 for the remaining 40 per cent of the races." (taken from Auckland Council website)

    It's not just a case of setting a limit though. At what distance/angle? At what point on the track? Stationary tested? Where and in what surroundings? At what revs? Time weighted averaging? Or straight peak values? It's a complicated situation with no easy answers.

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