Noise testing of race bikes - what's the answer?

[Kickaha]

Dunno 'bout Western Springs pushing the boundaries Frosty, it's more a case of people expecting the world to change for them rather than adapting to the world around them. Western Springs has been operating for nearly 80 years, yet folks move close to a very popular motorsport venue and then cause a rukus about the noise? Numpty's.

From the reading I've done there were something like 70 objections from local residents around Western Springs outweighing a petition from 10's of thousands of speedway supporters. As a result we now have the following restrictions in place:

I thought the big problem was that Western Springs hadn't been complying with the regulations it was meant to and that the residents that were "objecting" wanted them to

[NordieBoy]

I don't know where the tests were carried out but there's absolutely no point in having a dBmeter NATA certified if you are going to point it at a bike with a concrete wall, banking and apartment blocks directly behind it. It would be interesting to see the difference in results comparing readings taken on the front straight at HD and another set after turn 1 with it's comparatively wide open spaces.

Like at an OZ V8 meeting a few years ago where a lot of the cars were getting pinged for noise levels.
The tester was sitting at the start of a braking zone. Where the cars would backfire.

[FROSTY:Me]

Dunno 'bout Western Springs pushing the boundaries Frosty, it's more a case of people expecting the world to change for them rather than adapting to the world around them. Western Springs has been operating for nearly 80 years, yet folks move close to a very popular motorsport venue and then cause a rukus about the noise? Numpty's.

From the reading I've done there were something like 70 objections from local residents around Western Springs outweighing a petition from 10's of thousands of speedway supporters. As a result we now have the following restrictions in place:

"Noise levels are monitored from the start to the finish of each race. The levels must not exceed 90dBA L10 for 60 per cent of the total races on any night, and 88dBA L10 for the remaining 40 per cent of the races." (taken from Auckland Council website)

It's not just a case of setting a limit though. At what distance/angle? At what point on the track? Stationary tested? Where and in what surroundings? At what revs? Time weighted averaging? Or straight peak values? It's a complicated situation with no easy answers.

Hi slowpoke--please you and anyone else understand I agree wholeheartedly with the thousands regarding WS. Except and I really think this is the important bit following.

The Western springs case was a bit of a benchmark really. Speedway organisers saw the situation happening YEARS before it came to the publics attention. Start of season they noise tested each and every car.I understand there wre a few pissed off crews and drivers.
But none the less every car on the track went out under the 95 (im sorry don't quote the number) dba having been tested ACCORDING TO COUNCIL REQUIREMENTS.
The problem was that some crews failing to see the big picture only complied because they had to pass "that damb test' and were constantly grubling about lost HP and how their cars were set up a certain way -muffling reduced HP.
The stack of disks in their supertraps got smaller and smaller (or other stuff that reduced the baffling)
THOSE GUYS meant that the whingers and whiners had a case to put to the council. Sure enough council turned up and cars were reading up over 100dba.(again I'm srry if the figure isn't correct)
The council got the meeting SHUT DOWN. I don't recall if one whole season got skipped or if it was only a couple of meetings but it took a lot of people to get the decision changed to whgat they have today. -DON'T for one second think that the council wont shut the place down if the noise spikes again.


Does this sound at all familiar??
Again mate I'm not for a second agreeing with the veiws of the idiots that build next to a racetrack and then complain about the noise.
I'm pointing out that a very clear precedent has been set. Its far far better for all racers to get their bikes to (BELOW) the correct level NOW before the whingers get meetings shut down. Again I also feel that means of quietening down areas on tracks that amplify the sound currently need to be looked at for means to queten things down.

I know there WILL be fucked off teams who will miss out on racing but IMO far far better that than letting the council have even a tiny toehold.


Pukekohe,manfeild even I think ruapuna are definitely venues where urban sprawl is closing in on the tracks.

[Grumph]

I agree that some aspects of circuit design will have a major affect on how noise is transmitted to the surrounding area - but unfortunately that is well outside our control. The trend here and overseas seems to be to suround the track with concrete buildings and walls - which reflect sound rather than absorbing or diffusing it. I'm led to believe that there are sound absorbing coatings which can help but that is of course $$$.
A flat circuit surrounded by trees is the best case for ease of noise control IMO - but that's not what you've got now.

Urban sprawl isn't a factor in the SI - the car club bought up the land around Ruapuna prior to the quakes luckily. And it's under the airport flight path too....

[Deano]

Hmmm, we need to see exactly how these noise regs are worded then eh? You'd be the guru Deano but I'm guessing councils will have wording to the effect of either (levels are for example only) +105dB instantaneous peak or +99dB continuous for 3hours and it's game over?

Fuggit, I've got a Q/S sitting at home and I'm too scared to fit the bloody thing now....

the council is bound to adhere to monitor environmental noise using nzs 6801 and 6802, although a resource consent may be more specific in terms of the relevant descriptors used

[Deano]

I agree that some aspects of circuit design will have a major affect on how noise is transmitted to the surrounding area - but unfortunately that is well outside our control. The trend here and overseas seems to be to suround the track with concrete buildings and walls - which reflect sound rather than absorbing or diffusing it. I'm led to believe that there are sound absorbing coatings which can help but that is of course $$$.
A flat circuit surrounded by trees is the best case for ease of noise control IMO - but that's not what you've got now.

Urban sprawl isn't a factor in the SI - the car club bought up the land around Ruapuna prior to the quakes luckily. And it's under the airport flight path too....

concrete walls make excellent acoustic barriers, making sound waves travel further to the recipient and attenuating the noise (often by 10dBA)

there will be reflections though

trees need to be quite dense to absorb noise - -they are often used to prevent a line of sight to the noise source, which has a psychological effect, making the recipient 'think' the noise is less

studies have shown trees can actualluy elevate noise slightly at night due to releasing CO2 into the air that the sound waves travel through, magnifying the noise ever so slightly (1dBA)

[Biggles08]

Urban sprawl isn't a factor in the SI - the car club bought up the land around Ruapuna prior to the quakes luckily. And it's under the airport flight path too....

I could be wrong but I thought it was actually the council that bought up that land, not the car club?

[FROSTY:Me]

Hey deano. What about concrete walls covered in that rubber "eggcarton" stuff? Serious question because I'm no acoustics expert.

[Grumph]

I could be wrong but I thought it was actually the council that bought up that land, not the car club?

There was a three way deal between the Prison, the Council and Fulton Hogan some time back which got the Council a larger area for the track in exchange for some land swapping. It was brokered by the late Colin Hooper who was a long term fulton Hogan man.
Since then the car club has been buying up residential properties around the track. At present i think all the complainers have been bought out - for the moment.
Still not as good as Teretonga where the car club owns all the land between the road and the sea - incl the camp gound.

[slowpoke]

Hi slowpoke--please you and anyone else understand I agree wholeheartedly with the thousands regarding WS. Except and I really think this is the important bit following.

The Western springs case was a bit of a benchmark really. Speedway organisers saw the situation happening YEARS before it came to the publics attention. Start of season they noise tested each and every car.I understand there wre a few pissed off crews and drivers.
But none the less every car on the track went out under the 95 (im sorry don't quote the number) dba having been tested ACCORDING TO COUNCIL REQUIREMENTS.
The problem was that some crews failing to see the big picture only complied because they had to pass "that damb test' and were constantly grubling about lost HP and how their cars were set up a certain way -muffling reduced HP.
The stack of disks in their supertraps got smaller and smaller (or other stuff that reduced the baffling)
THOSE GUYS meant that the whingers and whiners had a case to put to the council. Sure enough council turned up and cars were reading up over 100dba.(again I'm srry if the figure isn't correct)
The council got the meeting SHUT DOWN. I don't recall if one whole season got skipped or if it was only a couple of meetings but it took a lot of people to get the decision changed to whgat they have today. -DON'T for one second think that the council wont shut the place down if the noise spikes again.


Does this sound at all familiar??
Again mate I'm not for a second agreeing with the veiws of the idiots that build next to a racetrack and then complain about the noise.
I'm pointing out that a very clear precedent has been set. Its far far better for all racers to get their bikes to (BELOW) the correct level NOW before the whingers get meetings shut down. Again I also feel that means of quietening down areas on tracks that amplify the sound currently need to be looked at for means to queten things down.

I know there WILL be fucked off teams who will miss out on racing but IMO far far better that than letting the council have even a tiny toehold.


Pukekohe,manfeild even I think ruapuna are definitely venues where urban sprawl is closing in on the tracks.

All good mate, I know exactly where you are coming from. And I can well imagine a few crews being shortsighted enough to push the noise envelope (even the level's are set extremely low), thereby rooting everyones fun in the future. Totally agree that the more we have our house in order that the better our long term prospects are.

On the plus side, it's making some speedway folks explore some innovative ways around it via quieter engines http://www.v8.co.nz/news-3900/kiwi-m...y-noise-issues and experimental silencers, that could have some knock on effects for motorsport in general. We aren't alone in facing this problem so it will be interetsing to see how things progress.

[slowpoke]

concrete walls make excellent acoustic barriers, making sound waves travel further to the recipient and attenuating the noise (often by 10dBA)

there will be reflections though

trees need to be quite dense to absorb noise - -they are often used to prevent a line of sight to the noise source, which has a psychological effect, making the recipient 'think' the noise is less

studies have shown trees can actualluy elevate noise slightly at night due to releasing CO2 into the air that the sound waves travel through, magnifying the noise ever so slightly (1dBA)

Fukn hell, you ain't half sexy when you talk technical....gives me goosebumps that does, you sexy man beast you!