Exhaust gurus?

[ducatilover]

I'm going to be getting a set of headers and a midpipe made up eventually for my ZZR600d.
Has anyone got any knowledge they can share on balance pipes? Size, length, positioning? I'd like to know the effects of different balance set ups.

The bike currently has the 4-1-2 factory header set up on it with a balance pipe between 2-3, it also has a collector plat where it goes 4-1-2 that will probably be left out.

The plan is to be running a stainless 4-1 using a GSXR1000K7 can (whether or not I'll open that up I'm not too sure.) and from a bit of reading it seems the ZZR D model likes to have a flatspot even with jets and needles. Me being me, I reckon I can get around it.

The usual off the shelf units seem to be exactly the same as factory, with the removal of the balance pipe.

Another though was, would it be wise to have 1-4 and 3-2 collect together? Like a 4-2-1?

Hopefully someone will help out my rambling mess

[bogan]

I got a spreadsheet I used to figure out wave and inertial scavenging RPM for the headers as well as midpipe, and cross cylinder stuff too. Should be able to adapt it for the more beige engine configuration too. That being said, I'm an amateur, so it might not be the definitive calculatory whatsit.

You after all top end, or a nice low end and mid range?

[DEATH_INC.]

The factory 'balance' pipe you are talking about prolly isn't. Most of them are blanked off and are just there for strength.
Just stick with 4-1 if possible, nice and simple.
I've often thought of joining 1-4 and 2-3 too, I guess it may add a bit of mid range torque over 4-1 and makes more sense than 1-2 and 3-4.

What I learnt with balance pipes on v8's was to draw a line on the pipe with crayon, and where it first burnt off was the best place to put the balance pipe. I guess that applies to bikes too? I don't think the size and length of the balance pipe has a huge effect, at least the car guys don't seem to be that fussed about it.

Get the size/length right and it should run fine, and pick up quite a few hp in the process

[DEATH_INC.]

I got a spreadsheet I used to figure out wave and inertial scavenging RPM for the headers as well as midpipe, and cross cylinder stuff too. Should be able to adapt it for the more beige engine configuration too. That being said, I'm an amateur, so it might not be the definitive calculatory whatsit.

You after all top end, or a nice low end and mid range?

Anyone with a bit of experience will tell ya that calculators give you a good starting point, but it's only by experimenting that you find what really works. If they were perfect everyone would have the same pipes....
I've made some far from what the calc's say that have worked very well....

Having said that, I'd love to see 'em

[bogan]

Anyone with a bit of experience will tell ya that calculators give you a good starting point, but it's only by experimenting that you find what really works. If they were perfect everyone would have the same pipes....
I've made some far from what the calc's say that have worked very well....

Having said that, I'd love to see 'em

Exactly, mine only guesses at what RPM the effects are most evident, no idea how much increase one effect gives over the other though. And its the whole rev range to tune for, not just maximising one value. Still, reckon I might trust it enough to go with one header pipe half a meter longer than the other on my next build.

Here's the spreadsheet anyway, will change it for you IL4 pansies later

[Haggis2]

You'll probably find the factory did no end of pissing around with this and the way they made is the best compromise of all factors. Just my opinion though. Merry christmas

[ducatilover]

I got a spreadsheet I used to figure out wave and inertial scavenging RPM for the headers as well as midpipe, and cross cylinder stuff too. Should be able to adapt it for the more beige engine configuration too. That being said, I'm an amateur, so it might not be the definitive calculatory whatsit.

You after all top end, or a nice low end and mid range?

More midrange torque I suppose would be nice lol it's quick enough up top for now.

The factory 'balance' pipe you are talking about prolly isn't. Most of them are blanked off and are just there for strength.
Just stick with 4-1 if possible, nice and simple.
I've often thought of joining 1-4 and 2-3 too, I guess it may add a bit of mid range torque over 4-1 and makes more sense than 1-2 and 3-4.

What I learnt with balance pipes on v8's was to draw a line on the pipe with crayon, and where it first burnt off was the best place to put the balance pipe. I guess that applies to bikes too? I don't think the size and length of the balance pipe has a huge effect, at least the car guys don't seem to be that fussed about it.

Get the size/length right and it should run fine, and pick up quite a few hp in the process

So do you think it's worth trying it without a 1-2 3-4 collector or whatever?
Will have to have a proper look at my "balancer pipe" as it never made sense why they would only have the one, it's about an inch round

[ducatilover]

You'll probably find the factory did no end of pissing around with this and the way they made is the best compromise of all factors. Just my opinion though. Merry christmas

Agree with you completely, but there's always a trade off they make and I'm also ditching the 4-1-2 system as it's big and fugly.
I'm not too keen on fluffing around with pipe sizes.
But if there is any advantage to different lengths and setups, I'm there

Bogan, I don't have MS spreadsheet program thingy

[onearmedbandit]

You'll probably find the factory did no end of pissing around with this and the way they made is the best compromise of all factors. Just my opinion though. Merry christmas

Fair point. But don't forget that they have accountants stopping them from going crazy and noise/emission laws to satisfy.

[bogan]

You'll probably find the factory did no end of pissing around with this and the way they made is the best compromise of all factors. Just my opinion though. Merry christmas

You haven't seen a ZZR I take it? trust kawasaki to do the best compromise

Doug I'll need the valve opening/closing angles and firing order / crank angles for the spreadsheet, then can start poking numbers at it.

[blackdog]

I don't have MS spreadsheet program thingy

Open Office. Free download.

[ducatilover]

You haven't seen a ZZR I take it? trust kawasaki to do the best compromise shhhhhh

Doug I'll need the valve opening/closing angles
and firing order/ crank angles for the spreadsheet, then can start poking numbers at it.

I'm sure I can find all these specs

Edit, can't find valve timing specs
Firing order is 1-2-4-3 anyway.

[ducatilover]

Open Office. Free download.

Aha, I knew I forgot to copy something from my old PC over

[DEATH_INC.]

So do you think it's worth trying it without a 1-2 3-4 collector or whatever?

If it's max HP you're after, yes, go straight 4-1.

[DEATH_INC.]

Here's the spreadsheet anyway, will change it for you IL4 pansies later

Ever notice how the calculators come up with quite small header diameters? Funny eh? Yet, in the real world, on a bike (the car sizes seem about right) you use much larger pipes....
edit: I have made a 4-1 system on an old VF750 Sabre I had, using the calculated sizes and it did work very well, tho I never back to backed it with anything else other than the stock system that just ran to a collector box....