Moto 3 in NZ

[crazy man]

HP limits are impossible to police.

It is just too expensive and difficult to have dynos running around the place and I for one would be a bit pissed if my bike went pop on a dyno at the track! No one has the time to do it.

Besides, it is possible to buy Bluetooth capable ECUs which can be 'switched' to a lower HP ign curve if one wants to.

if it went pop on the dyno it would of on the track anyway + geting 40 hp out of one would be near imposable here in nz anyway

[lostinflyz]

if you want to police anything, weight is very simple to control and police..... add 15kg to a moto3 and it may blow past you down the straight but itll level out at in the turns.....

[richban]

if it went pop on the dyno it would of on the track anyway + geting 40 hp out of one would be near imposable here in nz anyway

You should be able to get 42 out of a MX250 for sure. Would need a good gearbox. Gearbox might be an issue.

[quallman1234]

Average one is 38-40... Some make up to 45 in NZ. Theres actually quite a noticable difference in a straight line. Thats a 125GP bike.

[crazy man]

You should be able to get 42 out of a MX250 for sure. Would need a good gearbox. Gearbox might be an issue.

mx 250 engines stock are 23-24. the 450s are 48-50 stock just for a base line

[Cleve]

Good for you Steve. Thinking about the future and young racers in NZ (as always). Whatever happens hope the plan goes well, but think it is the right move. Whereever possible NZ should try to stay relevant to what is happening around the world. By the way I will be based in Japan for the next 6 months. Let me know if there is anything I can do while there.

[richban]

mx 250 engines stock are 23-24. the 450s are 48-50 stock just for a base line

Yeah nah but much more can be had buy tuning them for road racing. If you apply the same or similar numbers as we got out of my commuter based air-cooled bucket engine 40 to 45 is possible for sure. Just got to find the best designed base engine that can be modified the cheapest.

Or just spend heaps of cash on the real deal.

[crazy man]

Yeah nah but much more can be had buy tuning them for road racing. If you apply the same or similar numbers as we got out of my commuter based air-cooled bucket engine 40 to 45 is possible for sure. Just got to find the best designed base engine that can be modified the cheapest.

Or just spend heaps of cash on the real deal.

you better get on with it! can't wait to have a play my self

[richban]

you better get on with it! can't wait to have a play my self

Hell no.

I might build one on paper but thats as far as it will go till the lotto comes in. Personally I would rather build a 450 coz then I could race it against old dudes like me. I'll leave the Moto3 to the young skinny kids as it should be.

[Maarty]

I guess it is going to happen one day whether I like it or not

Here is the spare parts price list for the Honda

http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/al..._version_1.pdf

Was posted in the bucket section by Frits Overmars

Piston is NZ$2660.00 I guess I just stick to F4,

Parents start saving up !

Why bother creating a shit storm Steve, if pistons are $2660.00 then it will be a self policeing class, not even the better funded teams are going to be able to afford that sort of outlay.
I looked into it, the europeans are spending 2500 Euro (average) every 2000 Km ( which is as many Km's as we did this nationals with Troy)
I wouldn't have spent that sort of money in the last 3 seasons on parts and you wouldn't have spent that much EVER! So why bother upsetting the billy-cart?
But!
If it does happen, so what? why should we or would we want to remain a technology back water?
What do we want to produce, riders with asperations of a 5th placing? or riders that are motivated to try as hard as they can to win, against all comers! And besides, even if they do appear on our grids, they still have to have pilots that control them!!!!!!!!!

[Bert]

So, this is a forum, a place where ideas are mooted, discussed, debated, shat on, elevated etc.
So, Moto3.
Sooner or later we will move, slowly or quickly it doesn't matter, towards the Moto3 concept in our junior/entry/novice class (i.e. 125GP).
After having watched Moto3 at MotoGP and now the CEV (Spanish champs Moto3) races and also knowing that some Moto3 bikes are racing in Australia, a few things have come to mind that I think would benefit from some discussion.

1) Class name change: So, while this does not actually do much, it does encompass the concepts and allows people to get their heads around things if the name is inclusive.

Totally agree; and if you are going to market this with the realistic age group you are targeting it is going to have to be catchy.. Sorry I fail to speak txt or GenY&W...

2) Disparity: The Moto3 machines that are available on the market, i.e. Honda NSF250 are significantly faster than our national level 125GP bikes. They are about the same speeds and laptimes as the Aprilia GP 125's which make 10-15 more HP than our national level bikes. GPMono machines such as the MD250H are not that fast, and homemade versions will probably similar, so these bikes are competitive with our good 125's.

I guess the reality is that "that's racing"; but I'd guess it will be 3-4 years before we start seeing Moto3 bikes (or NSF250's) on NZ tracks. Like all things the class would need to be established before people would commit large amounts of $$ to win it by importing in Motos3.

3) Noise: If we think we have problems with noise now, just wait until people start wanting to race these things. I don't know how they will go when you have to start whacking big mufflers on them, but they are pretty loud now.

This is a huge issue that the whole sport is faced with, maybe it is a great case for TechNZ funding or some research projects (for acoustic damping or waveform propagation; without loss of HP in small engines. Given the news/closeup Monday; surely there must be a physics/engineering student looking for something to do??); where results can be applied across the entire sport.

4) Costs: The NSF250 is approx $32,000 landed, with no spares at all. I have seen what they come with, it is a seat rubber, a couple of NSF250 and Honda wing stickers and a couple of sprockets, that's all. No idea yet about running costs, but remember that in MotoGP the Moto3 teams are allowed to use 8 engines during the season. That's a lot of engines at god knows what cost each. There will be an HRC race kit, but that will probably be $32,000 also!
I have a source of 1 year old MD250H's from Europe for about €9500 + costs with fresh engines. Not sure of spares. (ANYONE INTERESTED CONTACT ME).

That is scary money for NZ motorcycling (given the price of 600s etc). Talking big picture dreams here: but that kind of outlay will stop any future options of young NZ riders making down the MotoGP pathway (I know that we haven't achieved this in a long time; I'm not bagging your great work with MotoAcademy and Red Bull Rookies). Maybe the ideal pathway might have to change to SBK instead??

Suggestions: Change the name of the 125GP class to Moto3 as is used in the USA and elsewhere at national level, such as in Spain. But we may not be able to as Dorna or FIM have trademarked the name, but should be able to agree on use. If it is FIM then MNZ should be able to use it. So maybe NZMoto3, or MotoThree or something like that if we cannot use Moto3. The NZ 125GP class has been reformulated to allow 250cc 4-Stroke "GPMono" style bikes, so that is OK, we have that in place already.

NZMono³ or NZMoto³ NZ3^moto even if it is trademarked then surely it is only the "Moto3" in it's entirety.

I also would suggest that we restrict, i.e. ban, the use of proper Moto3 style machines in order to retain some level of competitiveness in the class. This mix would be the sort of like having a slow MotoGP bike racing in our Superbike class, they are that much faster, and more expensive. In Australia on the weekend, 6/12 Superlites were 4 strokes, 1 of those was a Moriwaki, the NSFs were 1-2 sec faster over a 76sec lap (same as Manfeild). Not as fast as an Aprilia RSW125, but we don't have any of them.
It just seems a bit of a stretch to think that we would get 6 NSF250's here when we can't even get new RS125's on the grid, so perhaps best to restrict their use from the start.
Anyway, comments?

Don't Ban them; It's really unlikely to happen away.
We may even see an influx of RSA/RSW over the forth coming years that will need to competition; and in that case it might be two classes in one???? Moto3/GP125 and NZMoto3 (whatever)?? its still a progression, which isn't a bad thing.

[richban]

Its just buckets with less rules. (Awesome). Problem is building a competitive one will cost quite a bit. 14kish maybe.

[Brian d marge]

Good for you Steve. Thinking about the future and young racers in NZ (as always). Whatever happens hope the plan goes well, but think it is the right move. Whereever possible NZ should try to stay relevant to what is happening around the world. By the way I will be based in Japan for the next 6 months. Let me know if there is anything I can do while there.

Where are you in Japan ?

Im in Tokyo...

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Just add a class to the buckets allowing race or prototye parts to be used and let New Zealander do what they are goood at ( and famous for ) ,,making something out of nothing ,,some nice work already going on in them buckets at the mo

Needs a bit of a publicity make over though !

Stephen

[jasonu]

Perhaps all those clever buggers building exotic buckets could be lured away from F4? I personally would opt for the Moriwaki, maybe even let Sarah ride it!

They need to prove their worth in F4 first...