Is it too easy to get a race licence?

[Crasherfromwayback]

(but to be fair to MNZ, Speedway NZ did the same thing, so it was day liceinses there as well)

Yeah but them speedway cats are crazy. The fucking bikes don't have brakes!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hey dont give the Gays a bad name !

My bad....

[ellipsis]

...and we probably all still agree that getting a full race licencse for either 145 or 200 bucks is still too easy..

[nodrog:Me]

...and we probably all still agree that getting a full race licencse for either 145 or 200 bucks is still too easy..

You could make it as hard as you want, you are still going to get some dipshits turning up to race.

Its pretty fuckin hard to get a gun licence in NZ, but people still manage to shoot each other.

The onus should be on the events organizers to spot the dipshits and pull them aside and give them some learning.

Of course there is also personal responsibilty to take into account, but that must cost more than an MNZ licence because not many people seem to have purchased it.

[Clivoris]

Kind of ironic that a couple of threads down "Clubmans blah blah blah" you've got people being pressured into racing F1 and F2 because they can throw a couple of moderately quick laps together despite knowing that they're not remotely ready for it. Shambolic but entirely par for the course.

I hope you aren't implying that club officials would push someone into F1 or F2 if they weren't safe.

I have to agree that it is crazy easy to get a race licence but remember that there are always club and MNZ officials monitoring what goes on. No system is perfect but the mythical example of someone who cant ride entering superbikes is just that. Hang-on, I take that back. I just remembered Sandra S. Would a stricter licencing process have made a difference there?

Like an earlier comment said about firearms licences. The licence that is earned after thorough assessment doesn't come packaged with the faultless judgement or experience required to be a competent racer. Just look at what happens on our roads. It seems sensible to have a brief exam about flags and other foundation knowledge that at least means that the applicant has searched out answers from somewhere, but there is always going to be a learning curve (steeper for some than others). Managing this is bloody challenging but I imagine there are some real difficulties involved with a tougher licencing process. Do we really want increased expense, greater bureaucracy (sp?) and longer time-frames?

With regard to speed and skill differentials, I don't believe the answer is bracket racing. For me the true spirit of racing includes competing against others on similar machinery. This is what we should base championships on. Clubmans is a great class for novices, those who don't have the speed for other classes and those who don't have a class that suits their machine.

Finally, we are a very small community and need to take responsibility for our own actions and support others. Licences don't make this happen. I greatly appreciated how more experienced racers helped me out when I started, and work hard at doing the same for others now. I know that plenty of posters on this thread have done the same. Hell, Pete has even scored himself a cook because of it.

[jrandom]

Hell, Pete has even scored himself cock because of it.

That's the racing scene for ya.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That's the racing scene for ya.

Bloody glad I didn't score that!

[Clivoris]

That's the racing scene for ya.

It's the only reason any of us do it mate.

[ktm]

I hope you aren't implying that club officials would push someone into F1 or F2 if they weren't safe.

I have to agree that it is crazy easy to get a race licence but remember that there are always club and MNZ officials monitoring what goes on. No system is perfect but the mythical example of someone who cant ride entering superbikes is just that. Hang-on, I take that back. I just remembered Sandra S. Would a stricter licencing process have made a difference there?

Like an earlier comment said about firearms licences. The licence that is earned after thorough assessment doesn't come packaged with the faultless judgement or experience required to be a competent racer. Just look at what happens on our roads. It seems sensible to have a brief exam about flags and other foundation knowledge that at least means that the applicant has searched out answers from somewhere, but there is always going to be a learning curve (steeper for some than others). Managing this is bloody challenging but I imagine there are some real difficulties involved with a tougher licencing process. Do we really want increased expense, greater bureaucracy (sp?) and longer time-frames?

With regard to speed and skill differentials, I don't believe the answer is bracket racing. For me the true spirit of racing includes competing against others on similar machinery. This is what we should base championships on. Clubmans is a great class for novices, those who don't have the speed for other classes and those who don't have a class that suits their machine.

Finally, we are a very small community and need to take responsibility for our own actions and support others. Licences don't make this happen. I greatly appreciated how more experienced racers helped me out when I started, and work hard at doing the same for others now. I know that plenty of posters on this thread have done the same. Hell, Pete has even scored himself a cook because of it.

The most sensible post I have seen. Green rep.

[carbonhed]

I hope you aren't implying that club officials would push someone into F1 or F2 if they weren't safe.

Nope. I thought the people speaking for the club were all very sensible.

[Clivoris]

Nope. I thought the people speaking for the club were all very sensible.

Cheers for that. I went back and had a re-read just in case. Just for clarity though. When club officials participate on these forums and other media, unless explicitly stated we aren't representing the club in an official manner. We understand that what we say and do does reflect on the club, but see these forums as similar to conversations in a social setting. It's good to be able to express honest opinions and hear feed-back about all kinds of stuff.

[DerekP]

I'm not entirly convinced that licences tests are going to make a safer first time racer.

A mate attended a recent have a go day. At the special breifing for first timers flags were explained; the importance of watching for the chequered flag etc; All the flag points were pointed out by the 'trainers'. I told my mate the going through more than one chequered flag was a cardinal sin. After lunch he comes in with a sheepish grin - he had gone through more than one chequerd flag.... Would a test of some description have prevented this? No

Licence testing will also increase the price we pay for our licences.

A better way, IMO, would be to peer the first time racer up with a more experianced racer from another class. The experianced rider would join him on track, show him lines and would be able to offer feed back and tips at the end of the session. He would also help the newb with in-pit/technical types of info (tyre pressures, gearing, safety checks etc) After a period of time the experianced racer would just watch from the side lines to ensure the newb was following what was taught. A simular method to this is used for junior (streetstock) racing and works very well. Why shouldn't it work for older first timers?

[budda]

Cheers for that. I went back and had a re-read just in case. Just for clarity though. When club officials participate on these forums and other media, unless explicitly stated we aren't representing the club in an official manner. We understand that what we say and do does reflect on the club, but see these forums as similar to conversations in a social setting. It's good to be able to express honest opinions and hear feed-back about all kinds of stuff.

And not just CLUB Officials ......... cant think of many that get OFF on dealing with all the bullshit, most just get ground DOWN

[steveyb]

I'm not entirly convinced that licences tests are going to make a safer first time racer.

A mate attended a recent have a go day. At the special breifing for first timers flags were explained; the importance of watching for the chequered flag etc; All the flag points were pointed out by the 'trainers'. I told my mate the going through more than one chequered flag was a cardinal sin. After lunch he comes in with a sheepish grin - he had gone through more than one chequerd flag.... Would a test of some description have prevented this? No

Licence testing will also increase the price we pay for our licences.

A better way, IMO, would be to peer the first time racer up with a more experianced racer from another class. The experianced rider would join him on track, show him lines and would be able to offer feed back and tips at the end of the session. He would also help the newb with in-pit/technical types of info (tyre pressures, gearing, safety checks etc) After a period of time the experianced racer would just watch from the side lines to ensure the newb was following what was taught. A simular method to this is used for junior (streetstock) racing and works very well. Why shouldn't it work for older first timers?

A few comments.
Firstly, I believe that the logic discussed above, which I think summarises the 'no testing' view point quite well, is very flawed.
Flawed for the following reasons:

Just having someone wave some flags around and talk at a large(ish) group of guys standing around, chatting to each other (when they think they are being quiet), looking around, wanting to be elsewhere, wanting to get on with it, simply does not work effectively. Take your mate. I very much doubt that he is a fool (but you never know), but what lessons actually stuck with him on the day? The most effective way for the information and knowledge that needs to be gained to be gained, is by the individuals having to take their own time on their own to learn the knowledge some time prior to it having to be used, i.e. studying. Having a test of some kind is only there to ensure that a certain amount of that knowledge has been obtained by the individual. A riders briefing does nothing of the sort and can therefore not be compared to a testing regime.

Pairing up new riders with peers is all well and good, but there is no quality control to ensure that the peer is educated too! Also, it seems that there is a severe shortage of peers willing and able to provide such buddying. We tried it at VMCC a few years back and almost no one came forward and in the cases of those who did, the initiative simply died off after a few days. Admittedly, there was little support, but I believe that if the initiative was worthwhile it would have continued organically.

I am somewhat downhearted about the responses that acknowledge that getting a licence in NZ is way too easy, but then in the same breath say that is too bad cos I am not paying any more, and that it will turn people off. What a load of BS, and what a very NZ attitude. When an inexperienced and incompetent rider can get a licence and race a Superbike then something is wrong.

I think that everyone is also overlooking one large elephant in the room, along with all the other things wrong with this policy. That is the issue of MNZ insurance. Looking at the situation logically, I cannot see how the current MNZ insurer is going to stomach the current situation in the longer term. If MNZ lose its current insurance regime then we will be forced to self insure, like the Aussies, Americans and Brits. Then wait and see what the 'licence' fees and educational conditions will be. If a little studying and test will apparently turn people away, then that situation will see the end of the sport in NZ.

What is so scary about a bit of studying and a small test????

[G4L4XY]

Shit I better go for a race while it's still easy!! Oh wait don't have a bike, shit!