Hard braking?

[jrandom]

yes.

1. Metzeler Lasertecs. Right now. It's worth borrowing money to get them. Those stock Scorpio tyres will kill ya.

2. Trackdays!

3. Nek minnit, not falling off.

[nathanwhite]

1. Metzeler Lasertecs. Right now. It's worth borrowing money to get them. Those stock Scorpio tyres will kill ya.

2. Trackdays!

3. Nek minnit, not falling off.

1. Yes I agree. However I have already borrowed money to get my suit and good tyres will go onto the bucket project first. Also I am not riding nearly as squiddey as I was then.

2. See above about the bucket.

3. That's the idea!

[Mom]

1. Yes I agree. However I have already borrowed money to get my suit and good tyres will go onto the bucket project first. Also I am not riding nearly as squiddey as I was then.

2. See above about the bucket.

3. That's the idea!

Dont forget the rear brake for stability, makes a huge difference

[nathanwhite]

Dont forget the rear brake for stability, makes a huge difference

rear brake? I wuz gonna throw that away. Too much added weight doncha know

[sinfull]

There is also the thought of your suspension being too soft where as it will bottom out, which in turn could make the front slide out when ya hit said bottom !
Good suspenders is damn important which unfortunately alot of folk forget about, good rubber is important but suspension is equal if not a higher priority to sort !

Jr is correct that the scorp is a great lil commute, but could be damn dangerous if ya try and get all squidly on em in stock form !
He's also correct about being able to turn in under brakes, but not before the suspension is under control, or you'll be diving into a left hand corner when ya touch the brakes and leaping out into oncoming traffic when ya release (or is that the other way around ? mehhhh)

some light reading

[george formby]

rear brake? I wuz gonna throw that away. Too much added weight doncha know

I would keep it, damn handy things.

If I don't use the back brake on my bike I reckon my stopping distance is increased by about 20%. Yup, I've measured it
I was inspired to start practicing braking technique a few months ago, it's become a habit & my ability has improved a lot.
For years I rode covering the front brake, an old habit from trail riding but it was pointed out to me that you can squish your fingers if your brakes are soft & it's easy to keep the throttle slightly open when braking, increasing your stopping distance. I proved this myself. Four fingers on the brake now, better feel & better stopping. Another fault I have is not keeping my head up, look where you want to go, not at the bit of tarmac just in front, makes a big difference controlling the bike when the front dives & steering properly. Using both brakes my whole bike squats rather than putting all the weight onto my soft skinny forks.
Ultimately it's about how quick you can stop or evade a hazard, how you achieve it depends on your bike, properly adjusted controls & practicing the right techniques in varying conditions. With practice I can now feel & hear when the front is close to lock up. The tire leaves rubber on the road but does not lock. I've adjusted my rear brake lever to give me more feel & avoid lock ups too.
Same applies to braking in corners, both brakes smoothly applied but with the added interest of having to steer the bike when it wants to turn in on itself. It's a bit arse puckering to begin with but feels fine with practice.
I did'nt read the linear etc stuff, I don't think it's that complicated.

[Flip]

The problem modulating breaking as you enter corners is most normal bikes have a lot of caster, which means the point the tyre touches the road is behind the centre line of the steering head bearings, this has little to nothing to do with fork angle. Caster makes bikes stable, it also causes the bike to stand up and go straight ahead under breaking.

Relatively easy to do on a light weight, unstable race bike. Hard to get right on a heavy stable tourer. Farking hard to get right on my ultra heavy weight Roadking.

IMHO there is an enormous diference between cheap tyres, performance tyres and track tyres. I did a track day recently and was being chased by a car that had half the power to weight ratio of mine, because he had semi-slicks he kept up and I could not get away from him. I had performance road tyres 200hp and 800kg he had track tyres 160hp and 1400kg, at the end of the front straight I was doing at least 40 kph faster than him but he was always right behind me by the time I was 7/8 the way through the infield, he just didnt have the power to pass.

I used to have a GB500TT that had Yokohama Semi-slicks on it. It used to be a hoot to chase sports bikes over the Rimataka hill with only 40hp and a lot of ground clearance.

[jrandom]

I did a track day recently and was being chased by a car that had half the power to weight ratio of mine, because he could drive heaps better than me I couldn't get away.

Trackdays are like that aye.

[p.dath]

IMHO there is an enormous diference between cheap tyres, performance tyres and track tyres. I did a track day recently and was being chased by a car that had half the power to weight ratio of mine, because he had semi-slicks he kept up and I could not get away from him. I had performance road tyres 200hp and 800kg he had track tyres 160hp and 1400kg, at the end of the front straight I was doing at least 40 kph faster than him but he was always right behind me by the time I was 7/8 the way through the infield, he just didnt have the power to pass....

Any chance he was just a really good driver?

[Flip]

He was a very good driver, his car was set up as a track car, mine is a fast road car.

[tigertim20]

I'll stick my neck out and say an exponential increase is the most effective. It's just the initial loading that is usually the problem, once there is load through the tyre you should be able to haul on it pretty hard up to the point of slide/stoppie dependent on the bike/tyre/surface combo.

Some of the rider training places point out that with exponential increase, you initially load up the front, which flattens out the frot tyre, increasing its grip area, which affords you the ability to brake harder, safely, rather than just jamming the cunts on. There are other factors as well of course that play a factor.

I sense some practice time coming up . . .

I have another question. If braking reduces fork compliance, and leaning the bike reduces available sticktion, is it theoretically possible to brake that much later into a corner, and release AS you are turning in, rather then release and then turn in?




I plan to. However until then, I have the internet and the specifically general advice that I'm getting

yes you can, but it isnt necessarily going to be stable, what you are suggesting means that the front end would undergo a fair bit of extending travel, at the point you are just tipping the bike in,. Ideally I guess you want the bike flat and smooth through a corner

[skinman]

I have noticed that the way to get a good corner is not to unsettle the bike.
If you are braking late, if you release the brake just before turnin the front will rise (unsettling the bike) then be forced down by the corner (again unsettling the bike) whereas if you only fully release the brakes as you turn in & introduce corner load the front will not rise & fall meaning the corner will be smooth.
I have only had this happen due to going in to a corner faster that I would like & trying to lose speed, it seemed to happen & I got round.
Of cause on the road it is much better to have slowed for the corner earlier.
If I remember correctly something is said about this in Twist Of The Wrist as that is racing orientated.

[Ender EnZed]

However while progressively braking, would it be better to Linearly increase, Exponentially increase or Incrementally increase the brake force? Over my vast and varied riding career I have been exposed to all three of these at some point.

I'd say incremental to start with (because there's no point braking a little when yoiu want to stop) then exponential up to as far as you're confident isn't going to lock the wheel, then linear until you stop/lock.

or does it really not matter as long as you can smoothly transfer weight to the front wheel?

Having a few goes for yourself will count for a lot more than all the advicce on the internet.

rear brake? I wuz gonna throw that away. Too much added weight doncha know

On a Scorpio I'm sure it could be quite the giggle on a gravel or very wet road.

I used to have a GB500TT that had Yokohama Semi-slicks on it. It used to be a hoot to chase sports bikes over the Rimataka hill with only 40hp and a lot of ground clearance.

It still is with 40hp a lot of ground clearance and E09s.

[pritch]

On a Scorpio I'm sure it could be quite the giggle on a gravel or very wet road.

I think he meant the bucket?

One thing I don't thiink anybody mentioned; if the front wheel locks, let go the pressure on the brake lever.

For those who espouse four finger braking, when you get some decent brakes, good luck with that.

[george formby]

I think he meant the bucket?

One thing I don't thiink anybody mentioned; if the front wheel locks, let go the pressure on the brake lever.

For those who espouse four finger braking, when you get some decent brakes, good luck with that.

That's a bit like saying you should only use a finger & thumb to control the throttle of a powerful bike.