Comment on Commis corner

[Yow Ling]

Quoting Graeme Billington

Post no.1

I have noticed since the tragic and needless loss of Mark Brehaut last weekend at Manfeild,A thread has started regarding how easy it is to get a race licence in NZ,While I agree(and have done so for sometime)its far too easy to obtain one,MNZ are already formulating a process for testing for a licence,However,While that is a positive step going forward,We need to do something to address the problem in the immediate future,After talking to a number of club and MNZ officials as well as a number of top level riders,I decided to implement some changes at the coalface so to speak,These include as an example a zero tolerance approach to those competitors that infringe in the area of safety,EG:If you pass under a static yellow flag = Instant $100 fine,If you pass under a waved yellow flag = instant exclusion and $500 fine,If you don't remove your machine from the track when disabled at the earliest and safest possible opportunity =$500 fine and instant exclusion,These are just examples and not necessarily what will be handed out on the day,But be forewarned,There are going too be swiftly excecuted consequences if you breach a safety rule.

At first look at the title I thought the communists were taking over, who really knows.

As a kneejerk reaction to a recent racing fatality, it looks like there will be fines for some safety things

$100 for passing under yellow, $500 for passing under waved yellow, $500 for not removing your disabled bike quickly enough

While Im not against things that could help me live longer, wouldnt a better approach be some education ?

When is it safe enough to remove your bike from the track? Isnt that what the flaggies are for to manage an incident, will riders be expected to take more risks to avoid being fined? While the intention is good, i think this could do with alot of discussion first.

Passing under flags with fines I dont oppose, enforcment and evidence may be an issue.

[gixerracer]

Quoting Graeme Billington

"Post no.1

I have noticed since the tragic and needless loss of Mark Brehaut last weekend at Manfeild,A thread has started regarding how easy it is to get a race licence in NZ,While I agree(and have done so for sometime)its far too easy to obtain one,MNZ are already formulating a process for testing for a licence,However,While that is a positive step going forward,We need to do something to address the problem in the immediate future,After talking to a number of club and MNZ officials as well as a number of top level riders,I decided to implement some changes at the coalface so to speak,These include as an example a zero tolerance approach to those competitors that infringe in the area of safety,EG:If you pass under a static yellow flag = Instant $100 fine,If you pass under a waved yellow flag = instant exclusion and $500 fine,If you don't remove your machine from the track when disabled at the earliest and safest possible opportunity =$500 fine and instant exclusion,These are just examples and not necessarily what will be handed out on the day,But be forewarned,There are going too be swiftly excecuted consequences if you breach a safety rule. "

end quote
At first look at the title I thought the communists were taking over, who really knows.

As a kneejerk reaction to a recent racing fatality, it looks like there will be fines for some safety things

$100 for passing under yellow, $500 for passing under waved yellow, $500 for not removing your disabled bike quickly enough

While Im not against things that could help me live longer, wouldnt a better approach be some education ?

When is it safe enough to remove your bike from the track? Isnt that what the flaggies are for to manage an incident, will riders be expected to take more risks to avoid being fined? While the intention is good, i think this could do with alot of discussion first.

Passing under flags with fines I dont oppose, enforcment and evidence may be an issue.

Education is the only answer finning people for doing stupid shit will not save lives!

[nsrpaul]

education is only answer
An important thing to remember with fines is that the "offending" has already taken place so the risks have not been eliminated to that point

[wharfy]

I'm afraid I don't believe anyone except a court should be able to impose fines.
Maybe I would agree to have it in my contract if I was a professional sportsman getting big bucks like Rugby League or tennis players.

[Sarah311]

Education is the only answer finning people for doing stupid shit will not save lives!

I was passed by two bikes under waved yellow entering Dunlop, as a bike was having a lie down at the exit - nobody did anything about that. It was part of the briefing in the morning... So the education that occurs before every round is only as sucessful as the brains uptaking it - or not!

Waved yellow, be aware - and no passing.... unless you can get away with it?

[Grumph]

I'm afraid I don't believe anyone except a court should be able to impose fines.
Maybe I would agree to have it in my contract if I was a professional sportsman getting big bucks like Rugby League or tennis players.

Go read the rulebook - fines for a wide range of infringements have been in place for decades....and by taking out an MNZ licence you've agreed to abide by the rules and accept the penalties.

[Kickaha]

I was passed by two bikes under waved yellow entering Dunlop, as a bike was having a lie down at the exit - nobody did anything about that.

Did you go and speak to a steward about it?

[GSVR]

Did you go and speak to a steward about it?

Without video evidence its one riders account against anothers.

Andrew Stroud lost a NZ Superbike Title for passing under a yellow.

Best way to stop the practice of passing under yellow is issue them with zero points for the race or send them home if thats not going to hurt.

Fines only hurt the poor.

[CHOPPA]

I think if they make stupid decision like a dangerous swerve into pit lane then they should be excluded from the rest of the meeting maybe not a fine

I have always had a couple of issues with Yellow flags....

1, The yellow flag is displayed on warm up laps to display the flag points but it would be ridiculous to expect everybody to follow the slowest guy around for the whole warm up lap. You would end up with a mass race start on the second lap of practice and we usually only get 3 laps of practice so effectively we loose 33% of practice. The other problem I have is that how do you differentiate between a crash and a display on that first lap? Most of the time I come around and the bloody flag marshalls are still holding the yellows out on my second lap of practice. A blue flag should be held out to mark there position

2, It is too dangerous for a group of leading riders to slow down to the speed of a back marker that has slowed his pace even more when you come to a stationary yellow. You should be allowed to pass lapped riders under a stationary yellow. This is what happens anyway. Imagine a front pack of riders lapping 10 secs quicker just coming into a yellow zone under brakes the back marker is braking from a slower speed, we cant stop that quick and if we do try to stop that quick we will crash. It might seem like a rear possibility but it often happens that way. Then to think we have to follow for 1/4 of a lap at that pace even after the accident area because there is no passing untill you get to the next flag point? It doesnt happen

3, Often a yellow flag is held out for no bloody reason! It end up like the boy who cried wolf. The flaggies need better training too

[jellywrestler]

I've commentated at the last two bike races at Manfeild, PMCC and Vic club and noticed there are quite different methods of riding after crossing the line most notably one who stopped racing and started celebrating their place 15 metres before the line meaning the following rider had to take evasive action. Others are grabbing the brakes as soon as they've gone across again creating a risk so this area also needs a bit of a mention. It is not an issue with ANY of the clubs it is something that is across the board so food for thought.

I don't envy anyone dishing out fines, we can't even get some people to display decent numbers.......

[CHOPPA]

I've commentated at the last two bike races at Manfeild, PMCC and Vic club and noticed there are quite different methods of riding after crossing the line most notably one who stopped racing and started celebrating their place 15 metres before the line meaning the following rider had to take evasive action. Others are grabbing the brakes as soon as they've gone across again creating a risk so this area also needs a bit of a mention. It is not an issue with ANY of the clubs it is something that is across the board so food for thought.

I don't envy anyone dishing out fines, we can't even get some people to display decent numbers.......

There just needs to be a harder line. If your numbers or bike are not up to it you dont go on the track. If you know you can get away with it then.... Maybe some descresion if the numbers were damaged and the bikes getting fixed up for race 2 but not at the start of the day.

In ozzy they are so strict. If you dont do something right your not racing. If you do manage to get out on track you will get your points stipped when you return for post race inspection. All bikes are held for 10 minutes after the race

There could be warning for riders that slam on brakes at the finish or do stupid things.

You cant fix stupidity though. How many times do you get told to get off the track when you have a problem, every briefing I have been to since that horrible crash at Pukekohe

[wharfy]

Go read the rulebook - fines for a wide range of infringements have been in place for decades....and by taking out an MNZ licence you've agreed to abide by the rules and accept the penalties.

Well I guess I had better not do anything naughty - cause I sure won't be paying any fines...

[MSTRS:Me]

I have always had a couple of issues with Yellow flags....

1, The yellow flag is displayed on warm up laps to display the flag points but it would be ridiculous to expect everybody to follow the slowest guy around for the whole warm up lap. You would end up with a mass race start on the second lap of practice and we usually only get 3 laps of practice so effectively we loose 33% of practice. The other problem I have is that how do you differentiate between a crash and a display on that first lap? Most of the time I come around and the bloody flag marshalls are still holding the yellows out on my second lap of practice. A blue flag should be held out to mark there position

2, It is too dangerous for a group of leading riders to slow down to the speed of a back marker that has slowed his pace even more when you come to a stationary yellow. You should be allowed to pass lapped riders under a stationary yellow. This is what happens anyway. Imagine a front pack of riders lapping 10 secs quicker just coming into a yellow zone under brakes the back marker is braking from a slower speed, we cant stop that quick and if we do try to stop that quick we will crash. It might seem like a rear possibility but it often happens that way. Then to think we have to follow for 1/4 of a lap at that pace even after the accident area because there is no passing untill you get to the next flag point? It doesnt happen

3, Often a yellow flag is held out for no bloody reason! It end up like the boy who cried wolf. The flaggies need better training too

As an experienced marshal, I can answer some of the above...

1. Held yellow on first lap of practice. Is to indicate flag points for riders. IF an incident occurs at any point, the yellow will then be waved to indicate a problem. As for 'lead' bike/s seeing a held yellow for a second lap...perhaps you could talk to those riders who take their sweet time getting on track. Those riders 'need' to see the flags points too, which is why it is often out for so long. When riders are late out at the start of a race, they are held to a pitlane start...can't do that on practice/scrub.

2. Flaggies radio in DELIBERATE overtaking. We understand the faster bike can't always avoid passing a slow/back marker, and we use our discretion and make a judgement call as to whether the passing is 'illegal'.

3. As a rider, you may not be aware of everything trackside. Yellows are NOT held out un-necessarily. And flaggies at PMCC + VMCC meets know what they are doing (I can't speak for other clubs as I don't flag for them). The yellow is put out by the flaggie, but race control instruct on when to pull it in. - flaggies don't decide that one.

[Maido]

I think if they make stupid decision like a dangerous swerve into pit lane then they should be excluded from the rest of the meeting maybe not a fine

I have always had a couple of issues with Yellow flags....

1, The yellow flag is displayed on warm up laps to display the flag points but it would be ridiculous to expect everybody to follow the slowest guy around for the whole warm up lap. You would end up with a mass race start on the second lap of practice and we usually only get 3 laps of practice so effectively we loose 33% of practice. The other problem I have is that how do you differentiate between a crash and a display on that first lap? Most of the time I come around and the bloody flag marshalls are still holding the yellows out on my second lap of practice. A blue flag should be held out to mark there position

2, It is too dangerous for a group of leading riders to slow down to the speed of a back marker that has slowed his pace even more when you come to a stationary yellow. You should be allowed to pass lapped riders under a stationary yellow. This is what happens anyway. Imagine a front pack of riders lapping 10 secs quicker just coming into a yellow zone under brakes the back marker is braking from a slower speed, we cant stop that quick and if we do try to stop that quick we will crash. It might seem like a rear possibility but it often happens that way. Then to think we have to follow for 1/4 of a lap at that pace even after the accident area because there is no passing untill you get to the next flag point? It doesnt happen

3, Often a yellow flag is held out for no bloody reason! It end up like the boy who cried wolf. The flaggies need better training too

Exactly my sentiments. I got growled at at Teretonga round for passing on the warm up lap. There was no way I was going to toodle around cooling my tyres off when I knew that I had to belt into turn one the following lap.

But then again, practice is only practice, its not like you are at race pace......

[CHOPPA]

As an experienced marshal, I can answer some of the above...

1. Held yellow on first lap of practice.

2. Flaggies radio in DELIBERATE overtaking. We understand the faster bike can't always avoid passing a slow/back marker, and we use our discretion and make a judgement call as to whether the passing is 'illegal'.

.

So if the lead rider gets to a pack of back markers as the yellow comes out he can pass them and speed of at his safe pace while his competitors have to wait? Opens the door for a protest there... My proposal would be that under a stationary yellow you can pass a lapped rider but not under a waved yellow

Exactly my sentiments. I got growled at at Teretonga round for passing on the warm up lap. There was no way I was going to toodle around cooling my tyres off when I knew that I had to belt into turn one the following lap.

But then again, practice is only practice, its not like you are at race pace......

But when is practice ever just practice? Practice/Qualifying.... (I realise your being sarcastic lol)