For the new riders and learners - A twist of the wrist 2

[R-Soul]

Well duh, it's not particularly suited to new and learner riders then.

Frankly this is such a good book that I figure you must be trolling... given what I have read about you and seen from you, I am surprised you don't already know it word for word.
If there is any good advice to be had (i.e sound, , it can be taken from this book. It does not teach you to go faster. It teaches you how to control your bike better.
What people choose to do with the extra control is their business.

[Katman]

What people choose to do with the extra control is their business.

Yeah, like that's not going to end in tears.

[jamov13]

Cheers dude.

Those vid's were awesome. I watched them all back to back - sure cheesy in places but there's a ton of info.

Awesome!

[Katman]

It's not so much the genuine extra control that concerns me but rather the perceived extra control.

[nathanwhite]

It's not so much the genuine extra control that concerns me but rather the perceived extra control.

This I think is why track days are important

[bogan]

It's not so much the genuine extra control that concerns me but rather the perceived extra control.

Have you read the book? The amount of factual and well thought out information presented makes it far more likely to align your perception of control with the reality of it, rather than to create a larger division. Personally I prefer Lee Parks book, but they cover much the same stuff, just with different writing styles.

[Katman]

Personally I prefer Lee Parks book, but they cover much the same stuff, just with different writing styles.

Personally, I'm warying of pumping new rider's brains full of shit that they'll never managed to process instantenously when it's needed.

Trouble is, everyone wants to be Rossi before breakfast these days.

[bogan]

Personally, I'm warying of pumping new rider's brains full of shit that they'll never managed to process instantenously when it's needed.

Thats one theory, another is riders who know what they don't know are more cautious riders. The later requires a responsible/respectful attitude to riding of course, which should be encouraged imo, rather than assuming all learner riders don't have it.

[davebullet]

Personally, I'm warying of pumping new rider's brains full of shit that they'll never managed to process instantenously when it's needed.

Trouble is, everyone wants to be Rossi before breakfast these days.

What reading would you recommend (if anything) then for:
A new rider
A returning rider
A rider with several years current riding with bad habits

I read TOTWII with a view to become more relaxed and confident, be aware of survival reactions and techniques to avoid them. It's helped.

[R-Soul]

Yeah, like that's not going to end in tears.

So you would prefer them to not have any good control in the hope that this will scare them into riding like nannas?

Good luck with that too...

[Katman]

I read TOTWII with a view to become more relaxed and confident, be aware of survival reactions and techniques to avoid them. It's helped.

That's great to hear.

Doesn't change the fact that I don't see Keith Code's tutorials as being particularly suited to new or learner riders.

(But bear in mind, I only struggled to about half way through part 1 before giving up on them).

[darkwolf]

Well duh, it's not particularly suited to new and learner riders then.

I'm going to disagree with you on this Katman.

It was is the most helpful tool I've used while learning. I watched the DVD before doing a 2,626KM road trip around the South Island in February. Applying the basics of what I learnt from that DVD is what I think made me a safer rider. Understanding the SRs (Survival Reactions) such as target fixation, chopping the throttle, and tightening up on the bars is what got me through that road trip.

Then as I got more confident introducing things such as the "two-step" approach to corners allowed me to start linking corners together and ensure I was prepared for what lay around the next bend. I have a copy of the book and the DVD on my phone that I frequently go back to because it is still a fantastic tool for riding.

I genuinely believe this sort of thing should be the first thing a learner does because it allows them to remove the bad habits before they start not trying to correct umpteen years of mistakes.

It's not perfect as it doesn't go enough into the safety side of things but my view is that the book was never written for road conditions, it was written to improve the rider on the bike. What the rider does with that improvement is the rider's choice, not the book's. It just seems that you are too focused on worrying about how people may perceive it to realise the benefit to the book. I wasn't a fan of the two guys in the DVD but they did help to point out things to avoid.

[Katman]

It just seems that you are too focused on worrying about how people may perceive it to realise the benefit to the book. I wasn't a fan of the two guys in the DVD but they did help to point out things to avoid.

I'm sure there is benefit within the book. I'm just not convinced that such an accelerated learning process is ideal for learner riders.

And quite frankly, anyone who evens refers to 'chicken strips' is a dickhead - let alone someone who uses the ridicule of them as the introduction to their riding tutorial.

[darkwolf]

I'm sure there is benefit within the book. I'm just not convinced that such an accelerated learning process is ideal for learner riders.

And quite frankly, anyone who evens refers to 'chicken strips' is a dickhead - let alone someone who uses the ridicule of them as the introduction to their riding tutorial.

Again, I'll argue part of that one. I agree that making chicken strips a measure of a rider's skill isn't a good idea. My view when I started was that if I am wearing that part off my tyre when I'm on the road, I'm pushing too much. With a little bit more experience, I'm still not concerned about getting rid of them but I understand what they can tell me about my riding in terms of how close to the limits I am getting.

Where my opinion differs is that I would rather show a learner things like target fixation, throttle control, body position and relaxed riding the first time they jump on a bike than wait until they've fudged through some rather ugly scenarios and destroyed their confidence or become resistant to riding techniques because they've got this far without needed to be washed off the tar seal.

Based on my own experience with the DVD (and now the book), the first time through I got truly lost right about the time they started about different lines through the corners but I picked up the basics of counter-steering, throttle control and using target fixation to my advantage. Every successive time through the DVD I've picked up something knew and each chapter I read of the book gives me something I missed in the DVD.

I would recommend, even to you, that if you can't stand the cheesy DVD, maybe get a copy of the book. I have an electronic copy if you want. I'm not saying you could use it, just that it might change your view on it.

As previously stated, I think learners will gather more from it because they don't already have their preconceived ideas of what should and shouldn't be about riding.

[Scream]

I'm sure there is benefit within the book. I'm just not convinced that such an accelerated learning process is ideal for learner riders.

And quite frankly, anyone who evens refers to 'chicken strips' is a dickhead - let alone someone who uses the ridicule of them as the introduction to their riding tutorial.

I disagree, I'm a new rider and it taught me things that I didn't really apply properly beforehand, and also provided a bit more insight into the things I already did know.
Although it may be themed around racing and going fast there is a lot of good information that relates to riding safely on the road.