For the new riders and learners - A twist of the wrist 2

[R-Soul]

Cheers man. I will check it out.

The first one was good for making you aware of the difffferent road surface and corner types - like road cambers, elevation changes, dual apex corners, road surface changes etc. Although it takes a while to make its ponts, it does make some good ones, and ou should read it too. It opened my mind to teh idea of "reading" a road - not just looking for a line in a corner.

But I think the second book is more important first off.

[willytheekid]

Learner riders, forget Twist of the Wrist - get this book instead.

It will go considerably further in keeping you alive on public roads than Twist of the Wrist ever well.

Ummm No it won't!

This book (and yes, I have it and have read it), assumes that you already know how to ride and have a strong understanding of the basics.
Twist of the wrist and the other Book I sent you (proficient motorcycling) teaches you the mechanics and physics of a motorcycle and how to actually ride one safely...Like how to actually go around a corner!...how to stop safely...how to position yourself on the bike and the road etc etc.

The Police Riders Handbook to Better Motorcycling IS an amazing read!, but it is an advanced riders book NOT suitable for learners at all!!
...you actually need to know HOW to ride a bike safely to put that vast amount of knowledge into safe practice...no good learning how to read traffic flow and watch for relavant dangers if you can't even stop the bike!(Hence why the book is recommended only at advanced rider training!)

But yes, it is a very well written book and along with the others WILL aid most riders to ride safer.

The most important thing for learner riders to understand is, NO book will EVER be as good as professional rider training!!...theory is one thing, but putting that theory into practice, and having a trained eye watch you and guild you will ALWAYS be the best way to learn how to put all that theory into practice and ensure that you have fully understood the information and technics studied.

Never hurts to study...but if your not prepared to sit the practical exams you will never know if you learnt how to put it all into practice.

[Katman]

but it is an advanced riders book NOT suitable for learners at all!!

Now you're just being silly Willy.

Anyone can pedal a bike around a corner if it's done with sufficient caution.

Hazard identification and situational awareness are considerably more pertinent to a learner rider than are the physics/geometry of a corner.

By it's own admission, Twist of the Wrist is aimed solely at motorcycle racers realising their full potential. Learner riders don't need (and, in fact, are better off without) that degree of accelerated tuition.

[Scream]

Now you're just being silly Willy.

Anyone can pedal a bike around a corner if it's done with sufficient caution.

Hazard identification and situational awareness are considerably more pertinent to a learner rider than are the physics/geometry of a corner.


By it's own admission, Twist of the Wrist is aimed solely at motorcycle racers realising their full potential. Learner riders don't need (and, in fact, are better off without) that degree of accelerated tuition.

I disagree again, after watching my friends attempt to ride my bike in a carpark with no understanding of the physics behind it I believe information like Twist of the Wrist II is of worth.

YES the majority of the film/book (I have only watched the film) may be orientated at racing/erasing chicken strips, in itself I believe that is a marketing ploy as much as it is valuable information.
If someone is going to be an idiot on a bike, I believe they should be a somewhat informed idiot over a fullstop idiot. Whether they watch/read TOTW, chances are they intend on riding like a dimwit anyway.

and funnily enough, hazard avoidance and awareness is a part of TOTW.

[Zedder]

Thanks for posting all that Wtk.

I bought the Police Motorcycle Roadcraft book a while ago but also have one by an American instructor called Pat Hahn that was given to me.

To this day I still refer to these books but am also going to buy the Keith Code one mentioned.

[Flip]

I believe both the UK cop book and the twist of the wrist are equally important. One is roadcraft for motorcycles the other is bike craft. You need to know both to be a good rider.

[ducatilover]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

A tutorial for new/learner riders should ignore the first half of that sentence and concentrate solely on the second half.

So, teach 'em throttle control?

Learner riders, forget Twist of the Wrist - get this book instead.



It will go considerably further in keeping you alive on public roads than Twist of the Wrist ever well.

I'm after a copy of that

I believe both the UK cop book and the twist of the wrist are equally important. One is roadcraft for motorcycles the other is bike craft. You need to know both to be a good rider.

Agreed!


Good post Willy old chap, am currently watching the cheesy vids.
I read both TOTW books back to back and have since gone back to them many times to re-study some things. They've helped me heaps.
Katman, every learner rider MUST learn about throttle control. No, it's not to be Rossi, throttle control is huge and no, you aren't going to just learn this shit. I've ridden with many opinionated twats who have zillions of km experience who wobble and fuck around knowing better than Keith code.
I probably still wobble and fuck around, but I do it a shit load smoother and safer.

[p.dath]

Respect to Katman, as he just wants people to not hurt and kill themselves on the road - and to take personal responsibility ensuring those goals. Which is what "The Police Riders Handbook to Better Motorcycling" is all about.

In the UK this book is also used in the IAM motorcyling classes, and those classes also focus on machine control - which is what Twist of the Wrist is more concerned with. However TOTW does it up a notch - to track level. That doesn't mean you should be going to maximum lean angle on every corner on the road though. You just need to apply common sense.


So I think both books have information in them that you can take away and use for road riding. It's about absorbing the information, and applying that which is reasonable and suitable for use on the road, and the situations you get into.

Just like here on KB. You need to consider the information that is presented, extract which you think is resonable and correct, and ignore the rest. Otherwise we will all be in a lot of trouble.

[Katman]

The problem being that far too many motorcyclists equate 'faster' with 'better' and 'better' with 'safer'.

Sure, you might be able to go around a corner faster after reading Twist of the Wrist.

Does it make you safer?

Not necessarily.

[Flip]

The problem being that far too many motorcyclists equate 'faster' with 'better' and 'better' with 'safer'.

Sure, you might be able to go around a corner faster after reading Twist of the Wrist.

Does it make you safer?

Not necessarily.

Does having an advanced understanding of motorcycle road craft mean you have the skills necessary to control a 2 wheel vehicle in a difficult situation say when you run over a patch of loose gravel, certanly knowing the risks minimises the chance that the hazard might occur.

To me bike skills and road craft are the diferent sides of the same coin. One without the other is a recepie for disaster. I prefer the term proficiency, am I a proficient rider? At least now days there are good books and training courses that can teach you these things. It honestly took me 30 years of continueous riding to work some of these things out on my own. I really wish I had done the reading and attended the courses decades ago, my riding would have been so much more proficient (better, safer, faster) much earlier if I had known more. Hind sight is however a perfect science.

This is about as touchy feely as I get!

[Katman]

Does having an advanced understanding of motorcycle road craft mean you have the skills necessary to control a 2 wheel vehicle in a difficult situation say when you run over a patch of loose gravel, certanly knowing the risks minimises the chance that the hazard might occur.

To me bike skills and road craft are the diferent sides of the same coin. One without the other is a recepie for disaster. I prefer the term proficiency, am I a proficient rider? At least now days there are good books and training courses that can teach you these things. It honestly took me 30 years of continueous riding to work some of these things out on my own. I really wish I had done the reading and attended the courses decades ago, my riding would have been so much more proficient (better, safer, faster) much earlier if I had known more. Hind sight is however a perfect science.

This is about as touchy feely as I get!

And therein lies the difference between Twist of the Wrist and The Police Rider's Handbook to Better Motorcycling and why the latter is a far more suitable manual for learner riders.

You could feasibly take and apply 10% from TOTW and actually become a more dangerous rider while on the other hand, taking any 10% from the Police Handbook will make you safer.

[Flip]

And therein lies the difference between Twist of the Wrist and The Police Rider's Handbook to Better Motorcycling and why the latter is a far more suitable manual for learner riders.

You could feasibly take and apply 10% from TOTW and actually become a more dangerous rider while on the other hand, taking any 10% from the Police Handbook will make you safer.

Certanly the first step to manage any risk is to identify it, however most newbys come with some road craft skills, they have ridden a push bike, have driven a car and have done their BHS, the thing that they don't know is how the heck to ride a motorcycle. To me these two skill sets are not mutually exclusive.

For real newbys the twist vid and book will be meaningless initially because they won't have the basic skills necessary to add the advanced skill set onto, but does that mean that they should not know about advanced skills? I think they should as you don't know what you can get right until you know how to do it. To be a good rider you have to practice good riding.

You can have all the road craft skills and still be a crap rider, you can have all the race bike skills and still be a crap road rider.

I live in a rural community, I ride mostly on rural roads. I rode to Auckland for the Hog rally and I felt quite vulenable riding in the city, I don't have good city road craft skills. Put me on a high country farm road and I understand 3d corners, gravel, ice, cows, sheep and tractors.

[Katman]

For real newbys the twist vid and book will be meaningless initially because they won't have the basic skills necessary to add the advanced skill set onto, but does that mean that they should not know about advanced skills? I think they should as you don't know what you can get right until you know how to do it. To be a good rider you have to practice good riding.

Yeah, everyone wants to go from Newbie to Advanced overnight.

Trouble is, fill a Newbies head with too much information all at once and they're never going to select the right thought/action process instantaneously when it matters.

[willytheekid]

Yeah, everyone wants to go from Newbie to Advanced overnight.

Trouble is, fill a Newbies head with too much information all at once and they're never going to select the right thought/action process instantaneously when it matters.

Exactly my previous point/post

The most important thing for learner riders to understand is, NO book will EVER be as good as professional rider training!!...theory is one thing, but putting that theory into practice, and having a trained eye watch you and guild you will ALWAYS be the best way to learn how to put all that theory into practice and ensure that you have fully understood the information and technics studied.

Never hurts to study...but if your not prepared to sit the practical exams you will never know if you learnt how to put it all into practice.

No book, tip or advice will EVER be as good as professional training!....and then even after that, experiance, practice and constant learning are required for survival on the road


New riders don't believe us?
....theres a reason why professional racers like valentino rossi etc DON'T ride bikes on the road...because there brains arn't wired for survival!...just speed!, they would be dead inside a week!
...hence the term "rossi"...ISNT! a compliment for road riders...its usually an obituary.

[Flip]

Reading a book about advanced paino playing doesent make me a concert painist. But is will help me to become one with a lot of practice.

Motorcycling is a dangerous pastime that sorts out the wheat from the chaff pdq. There are always going to be a few learner muppets noobs on those small sports bikes that are going to become unstuck, there always have been and there always will be. As the old saying goes there are no old bold motorcyclists.

The fast track to becoming a proficient rider is through the use of some of the very good books and espcially the courses available. I will put in a plug for the very effective Prorider one I did last year. I believe it takes 10 years before you know your ass from your elbow motorcycle wise.

It's actually the open track day riders that give me the shits because they practice bad technique and get away with it on a dry high friction track surface. The real world is not as forgiving.