Property costs in NZ - the heart of evil

[R-Soul]

Does anybody else here think that property costs are what is bringing NZ down and making it unlivable?

Hear me out: Tax favours property ownerhsip instead of ownership in shares/bonds/business ventures etc. So speculators buy property and make money from it, to buy more property. Everybody who can invest anything does it. Nobody invests in industry, so no jobs get created. Demand for property is kept high by the speculative buying so property prices inflate. As they inflate, more people buy property for the capital gains, inflating it further. In the meantime, rents also start going up because the poor cant afford to buy and demand increases for rentals. In fact, nobody can afford to buy except those who started off rich or who owned a house before they got too expensive.

Also, nobody develops new housing when tehy can just buy existing housing without risk for immediate profits and capaital gains. Only home owners build their own houses, because they want what they want and are prepared to wait for it. So eventually there is not enough housing for an expanding population, making house prices and rent more expensive.

Now nobody can afford to buy or rent, and they bugger off to Australia because they cant afford to get by on the low wages (because there is not much productive industry going on from lack of new buisiness development) and cannot afford to live here. In the meantime the few in established busnesses with monopolies (like Countdown) are making lots of money because there is not much competition, and they can pay low wages because there is not much competition, and not enough disposable income in anybody's pockets to drive new startup busineses.

This causes the separation of the classes out into extremes of the rich and the poor. Except that the rich are screwing themselves because the costs of living (especially rent or mortgages) are so high that even theoretically middle class salaries are struggling to get by. Even the middle classes start looking to leave, leaving even fewer entrepreneurs to start new businesses. Soon the whole country will be living in OZ, or looking to live in Oz and whoever is left wont be able to afford to live, or wont provide a market big enough for new busineses, or to compete with old businesses.

Instead, if the government took away all the incentives to invest in property, and made shitloads of land available for development (and maybe incentivinsing development - not ownership- of land), this would happen:
Property prices would fall a lot
Speculative property owners would sell their properties fast - and maybe invest in housing development (i.e. business) ventures instead, to make housing even more affordable for all
the cost of housing would fall
the costs of rent would fall
People would have more disposable income, thereby allowing newly formed busness ventures to have a better chance of succeeding
Reduced commercial rent would also give new businesses more chance of turning a profit.
Liquidity from sale of houses would be invested in new businesses that provide competition to the current single or double players, and make the costs of living and renting (commercial stores too) even cheaper.
Lifestyles in NZ would be btter because we would be able to own our own houses, and have decent sized houses and land for reasonable prices - sop less people would leave because they would not get the same lifestyles in Oz.


FFS the one thing that we do have shitloads of in NZ is space, and yet we pay the most for land (at least as a ration of our salaries)- even worse than in NEW FUCKING YORK?

High property prices and speculative property ownership are obviously the root of all the problems here right now,but nobody in government has the balls to piss off the property owners, probably because they own a good few properties themselves...

I will vote for the next party who promises to drive property prices down. If I am still here...
*Rant over*

[p.dath]

Yes.......

[unstuck]

I would rather focus my energy on getting more money. I love money

[merv]

No. ..... and the cost of housing in Oz aint exactly cheap. This shitload of land you talk about being freed up for development sounds like a lot more urban sprawl to me and I don't want to see that.

[HenryDorsetCase]

You've never done any property development have you? Or owned a house, I'd wager.

[JATZ]

Yes.......

what he said...

I think we need a capital gains tax

[Genestho]

OH!!

So, you want those of us that had to move to a hick town, or live in a POS just to be able to get into that first home, spending weekends doing it up instead of going out partying like all ya mates because you couldn't afford to - paying way higher interest rates than what's available now on lower wages, to accept a cut in house prices so you don't have to go through the same Rite of Passage, huh?

(But I do see your point, apart from the Australia reference because it really is not a heck of a lot different in costs, to NZ)

[smmudd83_1999]

The rising cost of property is hardly unique to this fair country.
Although I agree about the lack of core manufacturing industry and the knock on economic factors. Also, the national average salary is correspondingly low due to a poor secondary industry sector. Yet the cost of living is just ridiculous - food, cars, BIKES, beer, clothes... and don't give me the whole "Because everything's imported and we pay GST" bull. Most countries have a form of duty/tax on all purchased goods and services, plus most other countries import quite a lot of goods and can do so a damn sight cheaper than we can! Inexplicable.
I think that some parts of NZ are priced quite competitavely property-wise, but if you live in Welly/Auckland/Chch it's a different story. I think the average salary is $38k, in Welly it's $44k but the average property in Welly is $445k... most finance organisations consider 5x salary a good guideline for upper lending limits...

On the upside, the national minimum wage has gone over the $15/hour mark - which is actually pretty darn good (Compare).

And the whole Oz thing will eventually blow over. It's set to continue for a few years - but watch out, it's like the new age gold rush! And you say salaries are way higher in Oz... but so are property prices, beer, eating out, cars, BIKES.... so it's swings and roundabouts. You can make your fortune in Oz with a high salary job if you live in student digs or way way way out of any major city centre and reap the difference in income, but like for like the lifestyle isn't any better in Oz.
I've lived in the UK and stuff there is CHEAP (if you stay away from London and the south of England generally). I bought a house there for £130k ($260k or so at today's rates) for a house brilliantly engineered, using permanent materials... and it was WARM!! Even in -10*C cold snaps. And I didn't have to do dumb stuff like replace guttering, seal windows, paint the roof or weatherboards...it was built in 1926 and it hadn't needed any major building work (other than the addtion of REAL central heating - Pomes will know what I mean). Take that crap NZ houses!

[Coldrider]

I like high property prices, it means I don't have retards living either side of me.

[unstuck]

I like high property prices, it means I don't have retards living either side of me.

Ha ha, bet thats what my neighbors thought before I bought this place.

[Jantar]

Property costs in New Zealand are not high. http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/re...-370419906.htm
What is high is the unrealistic demand that people are only prepared to live in one area, and often will only consider cities. They claim that is where the work is, but statistics from around the country show there is a higher proportion of unemployed in cities than in the regions.

High demand for city living and of course the price goes up. Live in smaller towns and the housing costs drop dramatically.

[rainman]

I love money

Some might say that is the root of all evil...

[unstuck]

Some might say that is the root of all evil...

Some can say whatever they like I love the stuff, life is so much better with it. I think A lack of money is the root of all evil That, and evil roots.

[Andy67]

Property costs in New Zealand are not high. http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/re...-370419906.htm
What is high is the unrealistic demand that people are only prepared to live in one area, and often will only consider cities. They claim that is where the work is, but statistics from around the country show tere is a higher proportion of unemployed in cities than in the regions.

High demand for city living and of course the price goes up. Live i smaller towns and the housing costs drop dramatically.

Agree 100 percent, all the young things want to live in Ponsonby yet not prepared to buy the unit in Otahuhu to start off, like my parents did in the Wellington equivalent.....with no furniture.....iPads I pods, home theatre, nice cars , OEs all seem to take priority, just saying

[Coldrider]

Does anybody else here think that property costs are what is bringing NZ down and making it unlivable?

Hear me out: Tax favours property ownerhsip instead of ownership in shares/bonds/business ventures etc. So speculators buy property and make money from it, to buy ..........
*Rant over*

That is exactly the media beat up bubblegum news that has been fed to the minnions for the past 12 years.
If you built a spec house or two or a subdivision over the last 12 years you would know exactly where the money is being sucked out, and why buyers are prepared to pay such prices.