Which 650cc twin to choose for ProTwin or F3?

**gav** · 30th May 2012, 23:48

Anyone know if these are available here in NZ?
http://www.cfmoto.cn/Product_info.php?id=131
Just read a write up in the latest AMCN, seems pretty good and real cheap in Aus. $6000! And yes it might just be the first Chinese bike to crack the market too!

**quickbuck** · 31st May 2012, 00:07

Originally Posted by gav

Anyone know if these are available here in NZ?
http://www.cfmoto.cn/Product_info.php?id=131
Just read a write up in the latest AMCN, seems pretty good and real cheap in Aus. $6000! And yes it might just be the first Chinese bike to crack the market too!

Hell, that bike looks sexy....
The motorcycle isn't too bad either.

Still, 6000 Aussie, is aroud 8500 here.... So yup, not a bad deal really....

**codgyoleracer** · 31st May 2012, 07:11

Originally Posted by gav

Anyone know if these are available here in NZ?
http://www.cfmoto.cn/Product_info.php?id=131
Just read a write up in the latest AMCN, seems pretty good and real cheap in Aus. $6000! And yes it might just be the first Chinese bike to crack the market too!

At that retail price i am sure enough would come into the country to ensure homologation - :-)

**scott411** · 31st May 2012, 08:03

Originally Posted by quickbuck

Hell, that bike looks sexy....
The motorcycle isn't too bad either.

Still, 6000 Aussie, is aroud 8500 here.... So yup, not a bad deal really....

is it considering ER6N kawasaki's are $9995 brand new at the moment?

**manxkiwi** · 31st May 2012, 09:53

Just got the TT programme. There's a big article in there with Farquhar about what he does to his ER6s. Thought most people on this thread might be interested. See if you can get a look at copy.

I haven't read it yet (still smoking from the letter box!), but it looks good and quite comprehensive.

**codgyoleracer** · 31st May 2012, 14:27

Originally Posted by scott411

is it considering ER6N kawasaki's are $9995 brand new at the moment?

I know people that will change jobs, let alone their vehicles for $1500........ :-)

**gav** · 31st May 2012, 18:34

Originally Posted by scott411

is it considering ER6N kawasaki's are $9995 brand new at the moment?

Bargain, yeah I think that CFMoto would have to be around the $7K mark then.

**gav** · 31st May 2012, 18:35

Originally Posted by manxkiwi

Just got the TT programme. There's a big article in there with Farquhar about what he does to his ER6s. Thought most people on this thread might be interested. See if you can get a look at copy.

I haven't read it yet (still smoking from the letter box!), but it looks good and quite comprehensive.

Scan and post please

**manxkiwi** · 1st June 2012, 11:16

Sorry I'm on dial up, so that's not going to happen! I have read the article now. It's not as comprehensive as I first thought, but I'll jot a few of the key points. Obviously the fine details are his secret.

Full strip comes first, Ryan uses a Versys swingarm, because 'it looks better and makes changing the wheel easier'. I suspect the new model swingarm addresses that issue anyway. Crank, crank cases, bore and stroke and ECU must all be retained in their rules. Ryan plays with compression and timing (presumably valve and ignition?) to up power to 'over 90hp'. He uses a fulll Arrow system, modded wiring loom and a bespoke radiator. Runs his own slipper clutch! Apparently the ram air and injection systems see a lot of work, though he doesn't specify, funny that! The obligatory Power Commander over the stock ECU to get the best out of fuelling.

Gearbox is left stock. Maxton rear shock and ZX10 front end with Maxton internals. Insert suspension brand of choice. 'Bars, rearsets, bodywork etc are all obviously track orientated stuff. He makes his own fairing moulds and mucks around with shapes etc.

All for around 10k (pounds), not including donor bike! He had one for sale in the paddock last year. Perhaps I should have bought it and sent it down here???

Hope this helps and perhaps whets the appetite, be good to see a few Kwakas mixing it with the SVs eh?

Cheers.

**codgyoleracer** · 1st June 2012, 11:29

Originally Posted by manxkiwi

Sorry I'm on dial up, so that's not going to happen! I have read the article now. It's not as comprehensive as I first thought, but I'll jot a few of the key points. Obviously the fine details are his secret.

Full strip comes first, Ryan uses a Versys swingarm, because 'it looks better and makes changing the wheel easier'. I suspect the new model swingarm addresses that issue anyway. Crank, crank cases, bore and stroke and ECU must all be retained in their rules. Ryan plays with compression and timing (presumably valve and ignition?) to up power to 'over 90hp'. He uses a fulll Arrow system, modded wiring loom and a bespoke radiator. Runs his own slipper clutch! Apparently the ram air and injection systems see a lot of work, though he doesn't specify, funny that! The obligatory Power Commander over the stock ECU to get the best out of fuelling.

Gearbox is left stock. Maxton rear shock and ZX10 front end with Maxton internals. Insert suspension brand of choice. 'Bars, rearsets, bodywork etc are all obviously track orientated stuff. He makes his own fairing moulds and mucks around with shapes etc.

All for around 10k (pounds), not including donor bike! He had one for sale in the paddock last year. Perhaps I should have bought it and sent it down here???

Hope this helps and perhaps whets the appetite, be good to see a few Kwakas mixing it with the SVs eh?

Cheers.

To get 90 rwhp with those changes - is pretty impressive

**manxkiwi** · 1st June 2012, 11:50

Originally Posted by codgyoleracer

To get 90 rwhp with those changes - is pretty impressive

When he mentions 90+, he gives 70 as stock. So (I presume) that would be crankshaft HP?? He now has his own Dyno too. They are notoriously 'different' to each other. But it would seem he's getting 20+ extra HP over stock. Very reliable at that too.

**FROSTY:Me** · 1st June 2012, 12:00

Hey Glen. Im happy to stand corrected here but my understanding of the 650 twin class in the uk is that they race under different rules than us.
The bikes have a simple HP limit on them. -Do what you like but dont exeed 75hp
I think also there are limitations as to what you can do to the front suspension. -ie no usd forks.
I'd say that you are better comparing what the Yanks are doing to see what dominates when the rules allow lots done inside the engine and in the suspenders.

**codgyoleracer** · 1st June 2012, 12:15

Originally Posted by FROSTY

Hey Glen. Im happy to stand corrected here but my understanding of the 650 twin class in the uk is that they race under different rules than us.
The bikes have a simple HP limit on them. -Do what you like but dont exeed 75hp
I think also there are limitations as to what you can do to the front suspension. -ie no usd forks.
I'd say that you are better comparing what the Yanks are doing to see what dominates when the rules allow lots done inside the engine and in the suspenders.

Hi Frosty
Pommie rules have a lot of similarities with ours, Yanks seem to allow overbores (700cc) in a lot of their mintwin classes. The thread is mainly about the sourcing of the best 650 twin four stroke (if that was what your current choice of motor - and why).
SV has indeed dominated in NZ, but as many have noted this may have simply been because 'thats what others were doing, - and the Suzuki's aftermarket parts list - is and has been pretty substantial for a long time. The interchangability of suzuki parts bewteeen quite different suzuki models has in my experience also been a strong motivation for easy and cost effective development.
GW

**Grumph** · 1st June 2012, 17:16

true I suppose that because many have done it, the SV is easier....At least you're following a proven path. To do a Kawa, some degree of intelligence and experience is required because you are going to be forging your own path.

Just be very careful of what is on the net...a customer turned up with ZX7 valve springs seats and retainers because that is what he was told to use by yanks who were racing the ER6's....actual measurement showed the setup they recommended was less than .020in valve lift away from coil bind....I refused to run it.

**quickbuck** · 1st June 2012, 22:35

Originally Posted by Grumph

Just be very careful of what is on the net...a customer turned up with ZX7 valve springs seats and retainers because that is what he was told to use by yanks who were racing the ER6's....actual measurement showed the setup they recommended was less than .020in valve lift away from coil bind....I refused to run it.

A VERY good lesson in "don't believe everything you read" right there....