A unique problem with SI Buckets

[F5 Dave]

I think one of the things is that it is too hard to say, 'No you can't race that old bucket' to some chap who's turned up. but if it can't do, say 100kph on a long cct then it shouldn't be allowed out. A std RG50 will do 100, I had no problem with the 50s. But the knackered 100s/125s that can't do that, well sorry, someone will get hurt with a big closing speed.

Crashes can & will happen in the corners, heck I clipped a guy a couple of years back at the BOB on the sweeper onto the straight on my 50. But it was a racing incident as I was passing.

An impact at speed is another kettle of fish & just not pretty. I think its the straights that are the real danger.

[gav]

Some good ideas here, but not too sure the MCI development class would be suitable, as this class runs 150SS and 250 Prolites and the fast guys and girls run just as fast as the fastest buckets. The BoB problems wouldnt have been such an issue when the club ran there own meeting as couldve run a B grade race but with the current president deciding it is "better?" to run as part of a CAMS meet we will not have the luxury of having extra classes available. Ideally you'd think if you were that slow on a YB you'd realise maybe it was time to get an FXR? But maybe the cost or shortage of them doesnt make this too easy? Certainly a vest should be a requirement for first 3 race meets maybe?

[ellipsis]

Some good ideas here, but not too sure the MCI development class would be suitable, as this class runs 150SS and 250 Prolites and the fast guys and girls run just as fast as the fastest buckets. The BoB problems wouldnt have been such an issue when the club ran there own meeting as couldve run a B grade race but with the current president deciding it is "better?" to run as part of a CAMS meet we will not have the luxury of having extra classes available. Ideally you'd think if you were that slow on a YB you'd realise maybe it was time to get an FXR? But maybe the cost or shortage of them doesnt make this too easy? Certainly a vest should be a requirement for first 3 race meets maybe?

...hey Gav...I cant actually see it being a problem running an F4 B grade on the day, if it's necessary,(you dont mean a B grade BOB do you), I would have to clear it with the CAMS committee but I can see the safety issues of the speed differentials as being important enough at the BOB that it would be wise to do so. Can you put a number on how many riders or bikes would qualify for this class. I dont think we could sustain a B grade at other club days...our club has a vested interest in the safety of all riders at our events but I think the BMRC has to come up with a solution to training newer bucket riders...the toungue in cheek or is it serious, call for all F4 riders to get up to speed by owning an FXR or somesuch rocket is not the answer...it's buckets after all, isn't it?...anyway we will consider solutions, but you lot will have to come up with them...and they have to be workable...

[jasonu]

I don't think there should be a B Grade BOB or B Grade GP or B Grade anything else that has some sort of title attached to it. Run B Grade as a support class (with less laps than the main Bucket Title event) at these meetings for sure. F4 is the premier class and the 'lesser' class riders should have an incentive to improve enough to compete with the fast guys for the prizes.
Absolutely have a cut off time and CONSISTANTLY enforce it. Daves suggestion re the possible outlawing the total shit heaps should be looked at also, maybe innitially at the big meetings like the GP and BOB and later at the regular events if need be. Maybe tougher scrutineering specifically aimed at the real clunkers might weed out some of the problemsom bikes too. That might push the owners of these machines into at least improving their machine enough to be able to enter and that could in turn improve their lap times to the point where they are no longer a concern.
Having said all that (to a point) care must be taken not to discourage those wanting to have a go or those on a very tight budget. The line between having a bit of fun but doing it safety must be found. A trip to horsepiddle in the meat wagon for a broken collarbone because someone who didn't know better panicked aint fun.
Just my thoughts for what they are worth.

[dangerous]

Up Norf where they run on Kart tracks, buckets get the whole track for the whole day, which allows them the luxury of being to run A,B, C grades. Down here its a bit different, we run as a single class slotted in amongst superbikes classics and whatever, so we dont get to seperate the really fast guys from the really slow, sometimes the closing speeds are very high.

With the BOB coming up soon we will have the same problem real fast guys and guys riding buckets that have been dragged out of the 80's and represent a danger to themselves and others when combined with a lack of experience.

Last weekend a new (old) guy was riding his second race meeting on his new to him bucket, a much faster rider passed him in the last corner on the B track, he got spooked sat up and crashed into the passing rider, went to hospital with a punctured lung and broken ribs.

Can we work out a way to get them introduced to racing by making newbies run in MCI development class untill they have some competence then join into the buckets. For some reason people think buckets is soft, I think its really tough and fairly hostile , which is what makes bucket s great, but we need to ease new people with no experience into the class, when Streetstock guys come over they well sussed and usually show the old guys the way round

Any one have an opinion on this ?

Seems to me its a problem brought on by your selves (also partly progresion as that has to happen) never used to be an issue so bad whan I was racing (was towards the end)

I was yaking to Don yesterday and he was saying in NT when he was there rules were somewhat different for buckets eg a $400 limit.
Racing was fun to win not a fight to win... buckets are a full on class now I dear say the new old guy was thinking a bucket was just that not a modified sport bike of moderen tech.
What can you do about it... IMO SFA you evolved it you now see the not so good results from that.

[Grumph]

Okay - I'll spell it out. What Neil is saying a couple of posts back is that CAMS will go along with what the Bucket club comes up with.

Now on Ruapuna B track there is no way of using transponders...the BEARS have tried to get the car club to install a timing loop for the b track but in the end I understand the car club wouldn't finance it, it was going to be the bike club's cost.

So given this limitation the Bucket club commitee is going to have to be big boys and take an arbitrary stand on who and what starts the BoB....which may not be popular.

On the day I'd asssume there will be prelim races prior to the BoB....make them qualifiers. Lets see the Bucket club committee come up with an acceptable criteria for a start in the main race.

[Yow Ling]

Seems to me its a problem brought on by your selves (also partly progresion as that has to happen) never used to be an issue so bad whan I was racing (was towards the end)

I was yaking to Don yesterday and he was saying in NT when he was there rules were somewhat different for buckets eg a $400 limit.
Racing was fun to win not a fight to win... buckets are a full on class now I dear say the new old guy was thinking a bucket was just that not a modified sport bike of moderen tech.
What can you do about it... IMO SFA you evolved it you now see the not so good results from that.

Your memory is a bit selective here D, remember the Nipper crash, thats the kind of thing we are talking about. It isnt about how much money we invest in the class overall, Aussie buckets are just as if not more spendy than ours.

FXRs and CBRs are 10 years old , not exactly modern tech, you are acting and sounding like a Luddite when you want to go back in time to when Bucket racing was piles of old junk with a few rockets sprinkled in

[Kickaha]

Racing was fun to win not a fight to win... buckets are a full on class now

Buckets has always been a fight to win and a full on class, I've always had fun regardless of how the class has evolved

[bucketracer]

Have the BOB as an invitation only race.....

I don't think there should be a B Grade BOB or B Grade GP or B Grade anything else that has some sort of title attached to it. Run B Grade as a support class (with less laps than the main Bucket Title event) at these meetings for sure. F4 is the premier class and the 'lesser' class riders should have an incentive to improve enough to compete with the fast guys for the prizes.

At Mt Welly there has been a cut off for the 2-Hour for as long as I remember, with entry to the race by invitation only.

Anyone who wanted to, could hold their hand up but the race organizer would have a chat with a newbee or anyone of doubtful ability or lap times.

It was all done in a friendly way, generally those that shouldn't go out recognized it.

I don't remember anyone throwing their toys out of the cot. Maybe that's because JC was hard but fair and dose not tolerate bad behavior.

Having said all that (to a point) care must be taken not to discourage those wanting to have a go or those on a very tight budget.

At Mt Welly, once a year there is two invitation races, the 2-Hour and the Mt Wellington Cup, The Mt Welly Cup is for those machines or riders who don't make the cut or want to ride the 2-Hour.

Its invitation only and done by negotiation with the organizer and common sense, seems to work OK.

[Farmaken]

I can remember B grade running at Ohakea GP - why is that such a bad thing??

Is not qualifying for ,er .... qualifying ?

[dangerous]

Buckets has always been a fight to win and a full on class, I've always had fun regardless of how the class has evolved

For some maybe, but most I know perfer to be having a mint time no mater were in the feild... I for one would bail from any position to help another in trouble yet I know those that race to the end or a red...

Your memory is a bit selective here D, remember the Nipper crash, thats the kind of thing we are talking about. It isnt about how much money we invest in the class overall, Aussie buckets are just as if not more spendy than ours.




FXRs and CBRs are 10 years old , not exactly modern tech, you are acting and sounding like a Luddite when you want to go back in time to when Bucket racing was piles of old junk with a few rockets sprinkled in

Not slective but old n screwed theses days, Nipper exelant example, *thinking thinking* good point how to avoid that happening Im not sure but in that case I should have been more cearfull however hooked up in the race theres not much time to think.
Luddite? relgo aragant?
Old shitters were good but for most half the fun was working on them, tho that got tiring... what Im saying is with the speed and class off rider theres SFA you can do to lessen the chance the class needs to be treated more like every other, wont happen will it?

[TZ350]

The Mt Wellington Cup and 2-Hour are both run on the same day and no rider can run in both, its one or the other and are invitation only races. Invitation only as lap times somehow give people the idea they have a right, invitation is based on a wider critera.

[richban]

Last weekend a new (old) guy was riding his second race meeting on his new to him bucket, a much faster rider passed him in the last corner on the B track, he got spooked sat up and crashed into the passing rider, went to hospital with a punctured lung and broken ribs.

Was he wearing a high vis vest? I know that last BOB there were some slower dude's out there with vests on and for me it worked really well. Really snapped you out of the carve up mentality you can get in the heat of battle. Its not the cure but it is one step and should maybe be more widely enforced at every meeting. You wear the Vest of shame till you can do a 0.00 lap time or you have done 5 meetings without incident. Goes for people moving between grade as well. Just coz you are smoking in B does not mean you are safe in A. It may just change mind sets that little bit for both the people wearing the vest and those riding around them.

[Yow Ling]

Was he wearing a high vis vest? I know that last BOB there were some slower dude's out there with vests on and for me it worked really well. Really snapped you out of the carve up mentality you can get in the heat of battle. Its not the cure but it is one step and should maybe be more widely enforced at every meeting. You wear the Vest of shame till you can do a 0.00 lap time or you have done 5 meetings without incident. Goes for people moving between grade as well. Just coz you are smoking in B does not mean you are safe in A. It may just change mind sets that little bit for both the people wearing the vest and those riding around them.

Good idea, maybe the vests for anyone outside the cutoff, even if you have 50 races, either that or a road cone or chopper guard

[Buddha#81:Me]

I dont think the vest is a silver bullet.......but it is a good visual indicator of potential lack of skill or speed. I think a munimum of 5 meetings no matter of skill level when starting, you could have a blindingly fast road rider putting in some good times but not have any idea of what to expect on the track. Some may never get out of vests due to lap times but if at some stage of a race that person is going to get lapped and at pace its a small price to pay to be that little bit safer for all!

I think some on and off track coaching/mentoring could go a long way for newcomers.