Palm readings?

[zadok]

Then where does "Judgement Day" come into it in your view? My understanding is that there is to be a "day of reckoning" in which those destined for Heaven and Hell are sorted out. That is hardly do-able if the ones destined for Heaven and Hell have already gone there.

See an earlier response: Revelation 20: 12-15 might help.

[Wolf]

See an earlier response: Revelation 20: 12-15 might help.

But according to Zed, they are not in the grave or the sea, they are in Heaven already.

[SPman]

We all believe what we want to believe

So, if we're wrong, its our own fault.

[SPman]

Limburg Hopsmacker, but it needs to be very cold

Good, is it?
Found a crate of Summer Ale last week - - -mmmmmmm

[Hitcher]

Hmmmmm. Beer...

[zadok]

But according to Zed, they are not in the grave or the sea, they are in Heaven already.

Did he say that? I missed it. I didn't think he did. No ones gone to heaven yet.

[Wolf]

We all believe what we want to believe

So, if we're wrong, its our own fault.

Yep. (I know, 10 characters...)

[Skyryder]

Palmists, Tarot readers, Crystal gazers, New Age mumbo jumbo, oh and prophets no matter what their calling; all a load of cods wallop. And the Book of Revelation is in there to.

[Zed]

Then where does "Judgement Day" come into it in your view?

I believe that every person who dies will *immediately* face God their Maker in a personal, individual judgment (Heb 9:27).

Without getting too deep into it the Bible also speaks of two separate judgments for the righteous (believers) and the unrighteous (non-believers). The righteous judgment is called "the judgment seat of Christ" (2 Cori 5:10) and the unrighteous judgment is the one that Zadok referred to previously from the book of Revelation.

I also know of two churches based on the Bible and the teachings of Christ (by my definition "Christian") who hold the no one goes to Heaven/Hell except after Judgement Day as core tenets of their faith.

No I don't agree with them Wolf, that is a contradiction to the word of God. When you die you stand before God and he either admits you into heaven to be with Him or he sends you to hell to be separated from Him - it's that simple.

Example of what happens to the believer when he dies (is absent from the body):
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Example of what happens to the non-believer when he dies:
Luke 16:22-23 ...the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

[Wolf]

I believe that every person who dies will *immediately* face God their Maker in a personal, individual judgment (Heb 9:27).

Without getting too deep into it the Bible also speaks of two separate judgments for the righteous (believers) and the unrighteous (non-believers). The righteous judgment is called "the judgment seat of Christ" (2 Cori 5:10) and the unrighteous judgment is the one that Zadok referred to previously from the book of Revelation.

Thank you for clearing that up. Was puzzled.

[Zed]

Thank you for clearing that up. Was puzzled.

WOW Mr Wolf, that would have to be the absolute shortest post I have ever seen from you!!

You're welcome.

[NordieBoy]

Well I'm reading "With the Lightnings" on my Palm Tungsten E at the moment...

[Wolf]

WOW Mr Wolf, that would have to be the absolute shortest post I have ever seen from you!!

You're welcome.

I aim to... surprise.

I was just seeing if brevity is truly the soul of wit - rather than me just being the r-soul of wit.

[placidfemme]

Thank you for clearing that up. Was puzzled.

I second that... Thanks Zed

[myvice]

I'm not superstitious caus its bad luck!

Odd deviation from thread, it would take a VERY long time to convince me that Christianity had any redeeming features, but then I view most religions in that light.
If the Christians are right, heaven/hell, I won’t be getting cold!
The other side of this is all of the "I'm a good Christian" people I have met will be in heaven and I'd find that more hellish than any thing else!
I'll stick with karma and my own type of reincarnation, Iv seen too many things not to believe in anything at all.
I like the idea of reincarnation as to learn the lesions and have the experiences we were unable to in this life.
Would like to be reunited with those who have gone on befor us as well.
Maybe after we have done every thing we were meant to do, we end up in Valhalla or (put your own preference here) for the big eternal piss up?
On that note, "every thing we were meant to do" Why were we meant to do it? For what reason? 42?
Only one way to find out and I hope that’s a LONG way off for all of us!

Had my fortune told once, I was told my father (who I hadn’t met yet) was dead.
He's very mobile for a dead guy!

Your destiny may be written but the path you take is your own.