2stroke - F3/Superlite bikes coming soon to a track near you

[Drew]

Dont count on it

Which manufacturers are working on two stroke paved road machines these days?

[Robert Taylor]

Which manufacturers are working on two stroke paved road machines these days?

When you said ''not in our lifetimes'' I thought that for a guy as tender as you in years that was a pretty bold statement. The technology already largely exists to manufacture high performance 2 stroke engines with very low emmissions. Many manufacturers hold such technology in reserve until the market is ready to accept it. Who would bet against that over the next few years the world takes a course where the market will accept it???

[Drew]

When you said ''not in our lifetimes'' I thought that for a guy as tender as you in years that was a pretty bold statement. The technology already largely exists to manufacture high performance 2 stroke engines with very low emmissions. Many manufacturers hold such technology in reserve until the market is ready to accept it. Who would bet against that over the next few years the world takes a course where the market will accept it???

Pretty sure I used the word 'likely' in there Robert. This is one of those rare times when I'm not taking the piss or winding you and others up for fun.

I wonder though, and Wobbly will surely have the answer, how have they combatted the incredibly shit fuel economy that 2 strokes achieve?

Mazda made the Wankle rotary reliable, and meet euro3, but it still wasn't efficient and they've scrapped it.

[Dodgy]

Actually, the world's most efficient internal combustion engines are two strokes. For example, have a read of the Hyaundi two stroke diesel engines that power some of the largest ships in the world. Two stroke.

They would have had a real future in GP if the asses in charge had have allowed direct injection technology.

[Mental Trousers]

I wonder though, and Wobbly will surely have the answer, how have they combatted the incredibly shit fuel economy that 2 strokes achieve?

Mazda made the Wankle rotary reliable, and meet euro3, but it still wasn't efficient and they've scrapped it.

Direct Injection. They don't spray fuel into the inlet like usual, instead the fuel is injected into the cylinder after the exhaust port has been closed off. That way only the exact amount of fuel needed is burnt and nothing escapes down the exhaust.

[wobbly]

The issue with production 2T use now is simply who controls the technology.
Evinrude for example make easily the best outboard money can buy.
The big V6 is easily the lightest,fastest,least emmissions, best economy, best reliability engine on the market.
Its direct injection is the Super clever E Tec that allows for stratified charge - the issue is the enormous licencing costs.
Same for the Orbital technology used in other manufactures engines - again they are way more efficient, less polluting etc than any 4T on the planet
but the patent protection costs a fortune.
What is needed now, is a quantum leap sidedways, with some form of new, cheap, innovative direct injection method that can be applied to 500 trillion Asian ring dings.
Once that nut is cracked the avalanche of 2Ts will send the Honda arseholes into recievership, for their short sighted corporate view of technology - and rightly so.

[F5 Dave]

It started with the main man being a 4 stroke zealot. He liked air cooling as well. Funny & embarrassing I bet when they developed the EX2 (?) Rally bike for a lighter Desert bike with similar power & economy to the behemoths. Was quite successful, but lightly brushed to the side. Strange also for a company that has had some much success with racing 2 strokes.

[merv]

See this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...NSR-race-bikes

Honda I am sure can make as many 2T as it needs to into the future.

Surely the next trick is something like a 2T with valves, no need for transfer ports so no oil into the cylinders, and the fresh air would be pumped into the inlet valve by a supercharger or turbocharger (depending on how well they can tune the exhaust) expelling the burnt charge,then direct injection squirting the fuel in and then you'd have power, efficiency and very low emissions. The fresh air wouldn't suffer being heated in the crankcase either.

Is this what you are talking about Robert?

[F5 Dave]

They had a big quash to stop all 2 stroke production what was it? 2010 maybe.

I've filed **nda off my sidecases of my bucket.

[Mental Trousers]

Honda have never liked 2 strokes. They made them cos there was a demand and they made them well because Honda don't do half arsed when it comes to engines. But they've always been a 4 stroke company and they were a big influence in the move to MotoGP 990's.

[Drew]

This all sounds too good to be true. I'm not being deliberately negative about this, it all sounds great, I just have laymen questions I guess.

I suppose the reliability of a stroker can be greatly enhanced with fuel injection and decent engine management then also?

[F5 Dave]

I think you've been scared by MVX250 ownership.

[Drew]

I think you've been scared by MVX250 ownership.

Never owned one. My only two strokes were an A50, A100, T500, and GT500

[lostinflyz]

This all sounds too good to be true. I'm not being deliberately negative about this, it all sounds great, I just have laymen questions I guess.

I suppose the reliability of a stroker can be greatly enhanced with fuel injection and decent engine management then also?

this is another of the issues. someone has to make a highly efficent motor, of close to equal power, that is reliable and can last ~100 to 200 thousand kms on average. think a life span of 15 years for a motor with no major service...... then you see the trouble EV's have, plus every other mode of non-conventional motored vechile

[flame]

Well I might just bring my little two smoker out to play, even though its only 250 (....I wish there was still a proddy class for them ))