Welfare support and drug testing

[Akzle]

Yes yes, but the amazing maze of fantastic arty connections that are going on inside the average pot users brain can make any two completely irrelevant tangents connect with total relevance you see!!!
The other key thing to remember when discussing anything with a pot user is that its all a huge conspiricay man!!, the government is just out to get us all.
The other thing that pot heads always kid themselves with continually, is that they are super mellow & cruisey.
They may well feel that way, but I have seen more than the usual amount of angry outbursts & an overwhelming need to justify their point of view fron the stoner brigade.

bro. you're one angry and apparently ignorant motherfucker. i don't mean that in a disrespectful way, but your world view seems to be an incredibly negative one.

the government's obviously already got you...

Wow amazing to see such ignorance exists still. Unless you are just trolling. But nah I reckon you're just an idiot who has less of a grip on reality than what you think a 'pot user' has.

i wouldn't have used the word idiot, but i agree with the sentiment.

Bob...your completely inflexible point of view isn't going to move the debate towards a solution.

...You simply cannot measure everything in dollars and cents.

and again...

Strange how this debate sparking issue happens to be let loose as the asset sale thingy is being done eh?

that's done and dusted and toasted and fuck the lottaya. there's still a petetion running for a (non binding because the govt doesn't actually give a fuck what you think) referendum. i encourage you all to contact your local greens office for this petetion.

You write fiction, wouldn't recognise reality if it bit you on the arse.

For the record: The dole is charity, try to be thankful to those who give you your daily bread. Try not to impose on their generosity too long.

actually, some government types got together a while ago and decided what were "basic human rights" - things that everyone was entitled to (somewhere dry to sleep, food, electricity, i think broadband, even, is now on the list.. but whatever), and, because the governments love their pie, the way they met their obligations was with dole systems.
this came about after the league of nations, where our defacto government was acknowledged on a global scale, they continue as the "united nations"
infact, fuck me. article 22 of the UN charter of human rights: "Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization..."
that's a law above the goverment's law. so, ocean1, that is your duly elected reality, certainly not a fiction.
and article 25: "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control"

dont blame the bennies. you voted for the damned government. so yall can sit the fuck back down and do what you're told.

[ducatilover]

I was sick once. You seen the shit they play on telly during the day? Bugger that.

YOU GET TO SEE HOME AND AWAY TWICE!!!!!!!

That's so important I shouted the whole sentence

[mashman]

You write fiction, wouldn't recognise reality if it bit you on the arse.

For the record: The dole is charity, try to be thankful to those who give you your daily bread. Try not to impose on their generosity too long.

heh... I certainly don't recognise your rose tinted reality as reality, but that's entirely your problem I'm glad to say.

It was the voters who decided, and since you didn't vote you've proven your indifference, you heartless bastard.

, bling in the post... and those who voted should be shot for making such pathetic self serving decisions.

[RDJ]

Very appropriate. You will do what Uncle Stalin says or else. The other side of Nanny state. We politicians, our consultants and lawyers can be pissed as farts when ruining the country but god help you if you fail some dodgy drug test unprofessionally administered at the local fast food chain.

If you like your booze or tote and decide the forestry worker is not for you then you will also be punished on the presumption it is because you would fail the test.

More dealing with the symptoms of previous failed policies rather than address the problem. Of course you can't address the real issue, the IMF etc wouldn't like that.

Nonsense on extended stilts. If I have to submit to and pass a drug test to remain employed and collect my pay, why is it that people who collect unemployment don't have to do the same?

[wharekura]

I start threads like this to open up my own opinions on things, yet I see mostly personal attacks. I see hard working people sick of supporting layabouts and others tired of having their personal freedoms attacked when they see nothing wrong with what they do albeit noted by today's govt. as illegal. What this thread has shown is a good mix of people that are a part of the forum.

I stick to my original opinion - I dont mind giving someone a hand up but not a hand out.

I chopped some trees and left them to dry for the renters next door in case they wanted some firewood - doing a good deed I thought, you know the types - tight on cash but not on booze. After I found it wouldnt be taken unless I chopped it up to fit their fireplace. I was so pissed off I took the shit to the dump (the trees that is)

[oneofsix]

Nonsense on extended stilts. If I have to submit to and pass a drug test to remain employed and collect my pay, why is it that people who collect unemployment don't have to do the same?

I see you can't look at it for any where but your own tight arsed perspective.

I keep my job without having to submit to a drug test, why is it the unemployed should be denied the chance of a job just because they may have had a drink last night?
Some of the drug tests test hair looking for drug taking months ago, that is not fair. Also so unwell people may have used a drug for medical reasons but we aren't allowed to study that. Some people might only be using the drug as a bored buster to fill in time until they have something better to do.

Truth is this govt. move is just a way to reduce the unemployment roster without doing anything to solve the problem. This will in turn make the problem and the full out from the problem worse, it always does.

Actually you should look into the history of why some of the drugs are illegal, it is not because of there affects.

[sidecar bob]

bro. you're one angry and apparently ignorant motherfucker. i don't mean that in a disrespectful way, but your world view seems to be an incredibly negative one.

the government's obviously already got you...

I was actually taking the piss out of dumb angry stoners tounge in cheek, but you missed that. Must be the drugs.

[skippa1]

"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control"

dont blame the bennies. you voted for the damned government. so yall can sit the fuck back down and do what you're told.

I cant see the bit about everyone have the right to smoke it up for free? Lets see, food (all good with that), Clothing (yes), Housing(too right), medical care (absolutly), necessary social services (yep), security of employment(yes), etc etc....
No free drugs isnt there. Huh why ever not? Thats pretty fucked up aye......

[mashman]

I start threads like this to open up my own opinions on things, yet I see mostly personal attacks. I see hard working people sick of supporting layabouts and others tired of having their personal freedoms attacked when they see nothing wrong with what they do albeit noted by today's govt. as illegal. What this thread has shown is a good mix of people that are a part of the forum.

I stick to my original opinion - I dont mind giving someone a hand up but not a hand out.

I chopped some trees and left them to dry for the renters next door in case they wanted some firewood - doing a good deed I thought, you know the types - tight on cash but not on booze. After I found it wouldnt be taken unless I chopped it up to fit their fireplace. I was so pissed off I took the shit to the dump (the trees that is)

So you expected something in return? That attitude sounds vaguely familiar. I love it when people project their wants and expectations upon others, it shows a severe lack of understanding... but I'm not surprised by that attitude.

The basics of life. Everything costs money. You can't get any of them for free. Some are unfortunate enough to be a part of the unemployed, which means that there aren't enough jobs, which even the most useless amongst you must realise is true. Society decides to give these people money, why? To stop them from dying? To stop them from "acquiring" the means for the basics? To feel better about themselves by offering a financial helping hand? Some people resign themselves to the fact that they will be on the dole forever. Now that's a win given that not everyone wants to live on the dole, same amount of jobs, less people. But instead of leaving them alone to get on with it and because you deem that you are helping them out, you feel that you deserve something from these people in return. Call me a fuckin whaaaaaambulance... in fact you don't feel that you deserve it, you demand it of them by expecting politicians to fight a battle that they have been losing since the beginning of time, but it makes you happy, so you vote for it like a fool, irrespective of the consequences (asset sales, smaller classes, economic meltdowns, austerity etc...).

This policy will cause more financial stress on the people who it targets and you and I as the tax payer and you dare to call it progress... hardly surprising that sort of thinking fail instigates personal attacks.

[Woodman]

maybe it might make some of them clean their acts up .

[mashman]

maybe it might make some of them clean their acts up .

And what's stopping them from doing that at the moment? I'm sure it'll fix things... I'll start squireling some tax $$$ away just in case

[wharekura]

So you expected something in return? .

Not at all, they expected me to chop it up for them and carry it over. My winglish and wammer not clear. So will try and make it clearer:

"I chopped some trees and left them to dry for the renters next door in case they wanted some firewood"
- I did this as I had surplus and there was no need to throw it away if someone else could use what I have chopped.

"After I found it wouldnt be taken unless I chopped it up to fit their fireplace."
- I thought providing the surplus was enough, but they wanted more.

If that is still not clear or that my expectation is that if someone wants something I have, for nothing, then I do expect they put in the effort to chop the rest up for themselves.

[skippa1]

So you expected something in return? That attitude sounds vaguely familiar. I love it when people project their wants and expectations upon others, it shows a severe lack of understanding... but I'm not surprised by that attitude.

Ahhhhh isnt it the other way around? The difference being, their wants and expectations arent projected onto us, they are imposed on us. And yes, when they are imposed on me, I want a return. Not much, I just want them to be prudent with the money they are given. And when they fail a drug test when applying for a job, they impose on me again, because they clearly not only want my money, they also want me to satisfy their wants and needs with no intention of supporting themselves, which shows a clear lack of understanding.....but I'm not surprised by that attitude............sound familiar?

[Brian d marge]

On saying all of this , there iis a social compact ( contract?) the froggie wrote about it ( Rousseau) with out it Hobbes argued that life would be "brutish and short " and indeed was .

We have decided that suffering should be abolished , this was kicked off by a fella called rountree ( of the sweets fame) who came to the conclusion it wasnt the people per say who chose poverty , but a series of events , there fore there should be a basic level of assistance , which would ( actually) have benifits for those providing the assistance ,,,less crime for one

blah blah

There is a lot of work out there but a lot of it is soul distroying some deliberatly designed that way ..if you take the skill out of a job the worker becomes redundent by losing his or her bargaining power

So , the dole is neccessarry ...but I do want people to be productive in my society , lets give people option lets give them a chance to be productive , usefull

lets call this scheme "a work scheme " or . a green task force

as long as they pull their wieght , testing should be unnessassary ( which in its basic for is a invasion of pravacy, and can be opened up to miss interpritation,,as what happened to those 4 irishmen back in the 70s , )


nope this is a deliberate ploy to calm the right wing middle class in order to A, get some shitty deal through OR increase the right leaning vote, in time for the next election

stephen

[mashman]

waffle waffle, I'm such a nice guy, look at me, wasn't I nice...

If that is still not clear or that my expectation is that if someone wants something I have, for nothing, then I do expect they put in the effort to chop the rest up for themselves.

I thought you didn't expect them to do anything. You offered, they declined, don't get yer knickers in a twist coz they didn't give you the joy joy feeling of having your offer accepted.

Ahhhhh isnt it the other way around? The difference being, their wants and expectations arent projected onto us, they are imposed on us. And yes, when they are imposed on me, I want a return. Not much, I just want them to be prudent with the money they are given. And when they fail a drug test when applying for a job, they impose on me again, because they clearly not only want my money, they also want me to satisfy their wants and needs with no intention of supporting themselves, which shows a clear lack of understanding.....but I'm not surprised by that attitude............sound familiar?

as I alluded to, I guess non too obviously, you're as bad as each other... displaying exactly the same character traits and denying it in the same breath. You can't make this shit up ... however one is not putting demands on you, merely accepting a handout that should be without strings, where the other is making demands using their ass as a replacement for their brain.