Welfare support and drug testing

[flyingcrocodile46]

You know, if you worked on it a bit, I bet you could be quite cynical about how our society works ......

Heh!

[mashman]

Busy. But this:

If there was no token representing value then how would you pay benefits? Bag of spuds? Paid for with an oil change? Which cost three and a half T shirts? Don't be fucking ridiculous, if there was no currency there’d be no organised charity.

I know you think it’s demeaning for beneficiaries to have to answer for anything. Most of the rest of the world knows the solution to that problem...

You wouldn't need to pay benefits as food would be free. Ya know, walk into the shop and pick it up. Oil changes would be free too. No need to trade anything if it's all free. If there was no currency there's be no need for charity.

I don't think that at all... but I don't see why they should be treated as second class citizens, even those who "deserve" to be treated in such a way. They do, they ignore the solution too and also hope that it would just go away by implementing policy.

[FJRider]

You know, if you worked on it a bit, I bet you could be quite cynical about how our society works ......

That's the the problem isn't it ... 11 % of society doesn't work. So we're going to give them a fair option ...

WORK and earn their own money. Or drug test them ... so they risk loosing their Entitlement if they fail it.

No need to get cynical about it at all ...

[husaberg]

can't imagine i will. i have food. shelter, money, drugs, friends (believe it or not),

All the basic covered, but So you need drugs then?Not sure thats on your UN list is it?

whole lot of good karma piling up. my needs are met and i'm happy.

Rep is like Karma...so i had a look before at yours, you have 1/3 red rep that's like Karma mate....

you're starting to smell a bit...

i'am sure impressed with your witty repartee..........

are you happy? you don't sound like a happy person...

I sure find both of you two funny as....
difference is I am laughing with FJ, scumdog (AKA the Yank) flyingcrocodile46 Ocean and Mashy plus the rest, Whereas I'm laughing at you Akeezle.

I think its time you started to try and remove the chip of both your shoulders Akzeezle
Because if you haven't noticed yet, The world owes you nothing.

[idb]

You know, if you worked on it a bit, I bet you could be quite cynical about how our society works ......

Pah!
What do cynics know!!!!

[Akzle]

How do you gain access to the internet to enable you to spread your wisdom to the masses?
And why would you shoot poor people?
And why are you quoting Adele and Meatloaf...they're rolling in money?

I have soooooo many questions............

to answer your questions...
a shitty old laptop and cellphone
who said it would be the poor i would execute?
nono.. i believe adele was rolling in the deep...
ask away. educating yourself costs nothing.

...haaaang ooonnnnn...did you say you have money?

i did say money. but money is a means to an end. as your mate ocean pointed out, i can't swap all my tie-dye T shirts for oil. i don't endeavor to have a lot of it for it's own sake, nor do i agree with any/everything behind it. but i use it to buy cool shit that should last my lifetime, and that i can even hand on down to the grandkids.
i COULD just go and take the shit that i want off someone like you. i've got the guns... but that wouldn't sit well with my morals.
i don't allow myself to be a slave to it. i don't share it with your government.
would that i didn't need it. and i'm sure you'll all get here oneday. i'm praying for meteors. and tidal waves.

[Ocean1]

You know, if you worked on it a bit, I bet you could be quite cynical about how our society works ......

Story of my life, Ocean1 could try harder.

You wouldn't need to pay benefits as food would be free. Ya know, walk into the shop and pick it up. Oil changes would be free too. No need to trade anything if it's all free. If there was no currency there's be no need for charity.

Have you any idea how old that falacy is?

I don't think that at all... but I don't see why they should be treated as second class citizens, even those who "deserve" to be treated in such a way. They do, they ignore the solution too and also hope that it would just go away by implementing policy.

Yeah, I feel sorry for most of them too. Enough to buy them food and shelter. Not drugs I can't afford myself. And face it, the long term unemployed aren't actually citizens at all, they don't meet the most basic criteria: they contribute nothing. They're where thay are because they made poor choices starting way before they lost their job, and there's absolutely nothing you can do that'll change that behaviour.

[Akzle]

...Not drugs I can't afford myself. ..

shit man. if that's your only problem.. whaddaya want.. i'll post you some..

[husaberg]

Well I'm sure you could coerce the 19th into shape... iffen he's in the same industry as yourself he's likely gonna be a push over for a bit of propaganda.

The disagree was a she actually.

Misery for those who have traces of a substance in their blood.

Missery for those, that choose, even though, they knew they, will get tested, and sent down the road, if they test positive, to a substance that impairs their function, an illegal one at that...........

I disagree with your disagreement.

which one?

If there's cause to suspect it's being taken at work, absolutely.

What if its being taken on the way to work or 5 minutes before work Mashy were is the line in the sand.......after-alll its not at work

Yes and no, as said above, there needs to be enough of a suspicion that it is being used at work.

OK Mashy, but how pray-tell, will you, decide who to test, in a reasonable manner?
Isn't random the fairest manner?

ask away. educating yourself costs nothing.

i'm sure you'll all get here oneday. i'm praying for meteors. and tidal waves.

Er.... Time to ask for your money back.... you sure got ripped off..... Hurry before the world ends Heny Penny.........

[idb]

to answer your questions...
a shitty old laptop and cellphone
who said it would be the poor i would execute?
nono.. i believe adele was rolling in the deep...
ask away. educating yourself costs nothing.

i did say money. but money is a means to an end. as your mate ocean pointed out, i can't swap all my tie-dye T shirts for oil. i don't endeavor to have a lot of it for it's own sake, nor do i agree with any/everything behind it. but i use it to buy cool shit that should last my lifetime, and that i can even hand on down to the grandkids.
i COULD just go and take the shit that i want off someone like you. i've got the guns... but that wouldn't sit well with my morals.
i don't allow myself to be a slave to it. i don't share it with your government.
would that i didn't need it. and i'm sure you'll all get here oneday. i'm praying for meteors. and tidal waves.

But...money is the root of all evil you said.
Not just some...all.
How can you allow yourself and to your grandkids to be corrupted by it?
You're condemning them to a life of inherited corruption!

[mashman]

Story of my life, Ocean1 could try harder.

Poor Mrs Ocean.

Have you any idea how old that falacy is?

Likely as old as the falacy's against the idea... ad still not yet tried in modern day society to see if it will work (which it will).

Yeah, I feel sorry for most of them too. Enough to buy them food and shelter. Not drugs I can't afford myself. And face it, the long term unemployed aren't actually citizens at all, they don't meet the most basic criteria: they contribute nothing. They're where thay are because they made poor choices starting way before they lost their job, and there's absolutely nothing you can do that'll change that behaviour.

How do you know that they don't contribute to their community? Some of them are there they are by choice, some by ignorance, some by circumstance (yes I understand the argument against that, but if your head ain't right for whatever reason, you need time to get it right) etc... and there is absolutely everything that can be done to "change" the behaviour (embrace it even). Levelling the playing field first and foremost.

The disagree was a she actually.

Missery for those that choose even though they know they will get tested and sent down the road if positive to a substance that impairs their function an illegal one at that...........

which one?

What idf its being taken on the way to work or 5 minutres before work Mashy were is the line in the sand.......

OK Mashy, but how pray-tell, will you, decide who to test, in a reasonable manner?
Isn't random the fairest manner?

She's obviously intelligent.

Propaganda, no more, no less.

The last one.

There are signs. I suggest they look into it, because as you point out drugs can be taken at any time.

As I said above. Look for the signs of being under the influence. A damn sight cheaper than a blood test to start with.
Only of you're looking for under the influence and not trace.

[husaberg]

She's obviously intelligent.

She is, and is a lovely person. but remember she passes her drug test though.

Propaganda, no more, no less.

Say what, they took drugs when they knew if they test positive they got let go (which they were told it would happen prior to the implementation of testing) it isn't propaganda, because it happened Cause and effect.

There are signs. I suggest they look into it, because as you point out drugs can be taken at any time.
As I said above. Look for the signs of being under the influence. A damn sight cheaper than a blood test to start with.
Only of you're looking for under the influence and not trace.

ok using the Mashy Mantra We then drug test the forgetful, the irritable,the poor work attenders, the happy, the quiet, the loud, the sleepy,The shy withdrawn, the sad,the ones that smell funny, the clumsy the ones, the ones with a lower sex drive, the anxious,and so on..... come on Mashy is that fair.
What if they want to target someone unfairly as well. or if some of the people (as in basically everyone is covered there) that meet some of these impossible array of symptoms, surly there would be some innocent people that would feel aggrieved or a bit agitated when singled out......

If its so easy to detect how come some people miss the symptoms of serious addictions of all types (not just drugs) even close family and friends.

[scissorhands]

Because most people have unhealthy addictions [junk food, arguing, motorbikes] themselves and dont want to appear as hypocrites

many others profit from others mistakes and ignorance

Imagine who[and how many] would be out of work, if everyone was sorted

[husaberg]

Gee no issues here

come the armageddon, you'll be the first to go hungry. failing that, you'll be first against the wall.

i think that beneficiaries who get kicked off a benefit will end up robbing you moaning white cunts to get their $$
i think all drugs should be legal. (thereby eliminating the "need" to test, and freeing up a stack of prison space, a saving a fat fucking stack on policy enforcement costs.)
any other questions?

it's like cops paying tax. or politicians.

i operate some of THE most dangerous machinery in the country on a weekly basis. i don't drink much because i can't afford it, but i smoke like a train. and haven't hurt anyone to date. (anyone that i didn't intend to hurt, that is.)

. when i say coffee.. i mean the kind that paralyses children and causes heart problems in otherwise-healthy adults. most people make it with water. i make it with coffee. and grind and snort a couple of beans if i want a real kick.

you're more optimistic than me. i'm praying for meteors. (it'd be more fun to watch)
anyone know about space wars?

i complain. and i sure as shit don't vote. i reserve the right to make my own decisions, as a thinking adult.
why would i vote for someone to make decisions for me? especially if that person was a politician???!!!
the day i vote will be the day "hang the lot of the fuckers" is on the polling form.

i COULD just go and take the shit that i want off someone like you. i've got the guns... but that wouldn't sit well with my morals.
i don't allow myself to be a slave to it. i don't share it with your government.
would that i didn't need it. and i'm sure you'll all get here oneday. i'm praying for meteors. and tidal waves.

ahh. profit.
because that's the most important thing in the world.
oh. fucking. dear.
see. we're never going to agree now. because money is the root of all evil. and you worship money.
enjoy your next incarnation as a peasant.

oh if only! if only society could be like that. i'd be on top of a large pile of dead bodies with my ak47.
you don't think, that perhaps the whole system might be a bit fucked?
you don't think that if people were working for humanity, instead of their own selfish gain (money) we might all move forward?
robably not eh, easier to lay the blame on others, however poor and uninfluential they might be. the media sure has you by the snout.

can't imagine i will. i have food. shelter, money, drugs, friends (believe it or not), whanau, and a whole lot of good karma piling up. my needs are met and i'm happy.
you're starting to smell a bit...
are you happy? you don't sound like a happy person...

[Ocean1]

How do you know that they don't contribute to their community?

Au, ya got me, I'm pre-judging them innit? I do that, though because over the years I've dealt with a fairly large number of them, and of those, far from contributing almost all were a significant drag on their community. So when I generalise just go ahead and assume that I mean that comfortable majority, eh?

Some of them are there they are by choice, some by ignorance, some by circumstance (yes I understand the argument against that, but if your head ain't right for whatever reason, you need time to get it right) etc... and there is absolutely everything that can be done to "change" the behaviour (embrace it even). Levelling the playing field first and foremost.

We've done this, it doesn't matter why they're there. And yes I understand that some are not capable of holding down a normal job and never will be, they're the reason the benefit's there in the first place. But they're the very last ones that should be using their dole to indulge in experimental pharmacuticals.

As for the lavel field? You've got it backwards again, the whole purpose of the benefit system is to tilt the field substantially in their favour. Testing 'em for drugs isn't going to change that, at worst it'll cull some of the "won't work"ers out of the herd of "can't work"ers the dole's supposed to be for.